Hairloss regime without fin

[KUP]

I feel strongly about not using fin, knowing the possibly side effects.
So what are my options?
I am using niz shampoo once a week and just bought minoxidil but am very hesitant about using it, because it seems somewhat pointless when not taking anything to stop the MPB.
Is this correct? Is minoxidil worth the risk when taking into account the shedding?
What other options do I have besides fin and Dutasteride?

I have a receding hairline at the temples and diffuse thining. It is difficult to say on the NW scale because of the diffused thining, but properly NW 2-3.

Thanks in advance!

[macster]

minoxidil works very well on its own i believe for 50% of men. the research studies also seem to show that it is effective for the long term. some men report halting their hair loss for over a decade on it.

of course, you must be very disciplined in your use of minoxidil. 2x a day, every day, for the rest of your life. even if it is greasy and a pain in the behind.

the shedding thing is rare. those who have it are the ones who yell loudly on the internet, so it seems like a whole lot of people have this effect. but it is actually very rare.

its like working...at the returns desk at a target. over time, working there, you would probably start getting a very bad opinion about probably all the products at target. because all you are dealing with all day is with people who have had problem with target products. it skews you perception of things.

in actuality, very few people have problems with target products.

it is the same thing with side effects with propecia and rogaine. side effects for propecia occur in about 1.3% of men. And with half of those men, the side effects go away after 6 months with continued use of the product. that means the long term side effect rate is like .07, under 1%.

Some people are extremely risk averse and that is ok, that is your choice. For those people, who do not want to take an under 1% risk to get an 86% chance of keeping your hair for at least 10 years...for those people, your only choice is minoxidil.

And I think minoxidil works pretty well on its own, but you have to be very good about using it. No whining about it and skipping days and all that nonsense.

As Yoda said, "Do or do not. There is no try."

[KUP]

Thank you very much for the answer. It's nice to get some perspective on the whole thing.
I guess you are right, my view on the these two things might be tainted by reading all the post on the forums.

[macster]

Thank you.

You know, I thought about another analogy.

It's like...being a police officer. I have many friends who are police officers. Please this is not meant to offend police officers. I am pro-police and of that. I know they have very tough jobs.

But one thing I noticed is that, at least for a while after they just became police officers, they all..became...pessimistic about mankind, suspicious, and jaded.

It seems that for quite some time (and for some, permanently...)...their personality changed. They began to get a dark view of mankind because...because all they deal with is the crap from mankind all day.

Their job is to specifically focus on the worst elements of society -- thieves, drug dealers, and all sorts of bad bad characters.

Over time, they begin to believe that everyone is a bad guy.

It takes some very specific and intentional conscious thought, and even psychological counseling, for them to reconfigure their minds and realize that no, not everyone is a thief, not everyone is out to break the law and do harm. THE ONLY REASON YOU THINK THIS IS BECAUSE IT IS YOUR JOB TO FOCUS ON THESE PEOPLE ALL DAY.

Without being careful, the mind of a cop, especially new cops, can become very warped with regards to what reality actually is.

The same kind of thing happens in our situation. The message boards are filled with people with complaints, real or imagined. We keep reading these posts and we begin to think that these horrible reports are the reality rather than the exception to the rule, or even just the reports of hypochondriacs.

Also, it is so funny that these days, NO ONE has hypochondria in their own opinion. They are ABSOLUTELY SURE that propecia or rogaine is giving them this or that side effect. They are also ABSOLUTELY SURE that they do not have hypochondria, even though this condition is not all that rare.

Hypochondria occurs in about 4-7% of the population and is a real mental illness. It most likely is the true cause of a lot, if not most, of these propecia and rogaine side effect cases.

Hypochondriasis also peaks during adolescence and middle age, so we are talking about the same population here.

There are a lot of people on these message boards that are likely suffering from hypochondria, a very real psychological illness that can be addressed with therapy and medication.

[greatjob!]

Hairloss regime without fin = lose hair.

[StayThick]

Hairloss regime without fin = lose hair.

Hairloss regime with FIN=still lose hair.

Useless comment by great job! Way to contribute there guy.

[cichlidfort]

minoxidil works very well on its own i believe for 50% of men. the research studies also seem to show that it is effective for the long term. some men report halting their hair loss for over a decade on it.

of course, you must be very disciplined in your use of minoxidil. 2x a day, every day, for the rest of your life. even if it is greasy and a pain in the behind.

the shedding thing is rare. those who have it are the ones who yell loudly on the internet, so it seems like a whole lot of people have this effect. but it is actually very rare.

its like working...at the returns desk at a target. over time, working there, you would probably start getting a very bad opinion about probably all the products at target. because all you are dealing with all day is with people who have had problem with target products. it skews you perception of things.

in actuality, very few people have problems with target products.

it is the same thing with side effects with propecia and rogaine. side effects for propecia occur in about 1.3% of men. And with half of those men, the side effects go away after 6 months with continued use of the product. that means the long term side effect rate is like .07, under 1%.

Some people are extremely risk averse and that is ok, that is your choice. For those people, who do not want to take an under 1% risk to get an 86% chance of keeping your hair for at least 10 years...for those people, your only choice is minoxidil.

And I think minoxidil works pretty well on its own, but you have to be very good about using it. No whining about it and skipping days and all that nonsense.

As Yoda said, "Do or do not. There is no try."

Your words are kind but they are coated in sugar. I have been using rogaine for 3 years now and I have still lost tons of ground. Everyone's physiology is different. What might work for me might not for someone else and vice verse. I used fin for 1 month and already I was noticing a decline in my sex drive, erections were weak and morning wood was gone. And I HIGHLY doubt only 1 or 2 out of everyone 100 men get sides. Anyone with common sense knows these statistics are skewed and inaccurate. And what about the men that have been on the drug successfully for 10 years and then go off of it notice huge improvements in quality of life after? Or men that were on it for 5 years and in their 6th year they developed permanent side effects? DHT is the king of male androgens. It isn't just a hormone that causes us to lose hair. It has many important physiological functions in our body and in the brain. A lot of our hormones and internal bodily functions are all interconnected. When you start messing with their levels, who knows what could happen, not just short term but long term as well. Yes losing our hair SUCKS but I would rather have a healthy mans body/libido then the contrary.

[macster]

It is possible that the decline in your sex drive was a function of the normal aging process. You are not meant to be a crazy hornball in your 30s, or even your late 20s, as you were in your teens and early 20s. You may be confounding these two factors. Remember, correlation does not mean causation.

I could also say Propecia causes wrinkles, or gray hair.

"And I HIGHLY doubt only 1 or 2 out of everyone 100 men get sides. Anyone with common sense knows these statistics are skewed and inaccurate."

Well...you can highly doubt that. You can highly doubt whatever you want, but that doesn't change the research findings replicated in study after study.

"Anyone with common sense knows these statistics are skewed and inaccurate."

I like that. I like how you just say that. You could also just say:

"Anyone with common sense knows these statistics are true and accurate."

Just because you say something assertively, with an air of righteousness and self confidence, doesn't make that statement into reality. I could just as well say "Anyone with common sense knows that dogs can fly in the sky" doesn't make it so.

"DHT is the king of male androgens."

That's a cool statement. I didn't know that androgens were members on any royal lineage.

You then go on to make all sorts of unsubstantiated claims about how horrible the side effects are because this one said something or that one aid something, web postings, anecdotal evidence etc.

Well, you are using that data to make a judgement. That is bad data, assessed improperly, resulting in a bad judgement.

The data from peer reviewed clinical research is better data. The research design of these studies is better than the research design involved in searching around google and just pulling random stuff up and assigning it as truth, as fact.

NEITHER one of these ways of assessing information is perfect, neither the clinical research studies NOR jumping around on google. Each has its weaknesses.

However, the research approach of just jumping around on google and coming to conclusions is FAR WEAKER and FAR WORSE than the approach taken by the peer reviewed research studies published in medical journals.

All I am saying is that one approach is better than the other.

In the end, we will have to pick one approach over the other and live by it.

[macster]

One more thing I would like to note...

If propecia indeed has a side effects rate of 1 or 2%, this would mean that in a sense, side effects are not all that rare.

A 2% side effects rate, which is a reasonable estimate even for us who who are not part of the propecia paranoid posse, would mean that about 1 in 50 men who take propecia get side effects.

1 in 50. About 1 per set of people of about the size of a large classroom.

So I am not saying that the side effects do not exist. The studies say about 1 in 50 to 1 in 100.

But it is not worse than that either. And you have to make a decision as to what risk you are willing to take to keep your hair.

It is your decision based on your level of risk aversion.

[Dan26]

1-2% realistically is more like 4-6% based on other independent studies.

PFS can happen. Over half the people it happened to had an underlying physical or emotional condition, but there were some men who were perfectly normal/healthy and had their endocrine system severly messed up by it and now need hormone therapy.

again very small chance of serious life altering side effects