My story

[macster]

Good, it worked!

One thing I've noticed about many people today is that...well, since the internetization of everything and No Child Left Behinding of education...well, younger people these days just take things very literally.

Back in the old days, you know back in the 1900s, they used to actually teach these things in school called literary devices. A literary device is, for the sake of simplicity, a manner of using the English language in creative ways to get across an important point.

Some examples are similes (that guy is as big as a house!) or methaphors (the guy is an animal!). They are intended not be literal, but to use language creatively to get a point across.

So if I call a football player an animal, in the sense that "that guy's an animal!", I don't literally mean he is an animal. I don't mean the guy is like a dog or zebra. I mean the guy is very strong, athletic, and aggressive.

It is just intended to get this point across in a more powerful and creative way.

"That football player is rather athletic and strong and aggressive!" just doesn't capture what I mean as well as when I say "That guy's an animal!"

But they just don't teach this stuff any more in school so I've just found younger men and women take things...very...literally. It sometimes makes it difficult to communicate with them.

Things like colloquialisms are often lost on those under 35 or so. "It's raining cats and dogs," does not literally mean there are dogs and cats falling from the sky. "There is more than one way to skin a cat," does not refer to removing the flesh from from a feline, but rather that there are many ways to do a particular thing.

Eh, but they don't teach this stuff in school anymore. It's a shame.

Well, ok, so I'll just spell it out.

What this website is trying to convey is that the internet is full of unreliable sources. In the old days, there was a big barrier to entry for people trying to publish information or perspectives. Amateurs trying to get their message about about medical cures, for instance, might have to pay to run an add in the back of some paper magazine advertising this "cure" for this ailment, some tonic that grows hair, or whatever.

The cost of running this ad, this barrier to publishing your perspective, effectively created a wall that kept most of the quacks from publishing unwarranted and unsubstantiated information. Because it would cost them money.

Now, any fool can place any perspective, without proper verification, up on the internet. And people still think that just because it is on the internet, it has to be true.

The validity of information on the internet depends on whether it was properly assembled and properly analyzed. Only this can result in a logical and credible conclusion.

There is a lot of information, a LOT of information ("seas" of information!) on the internet that lacks these characteristics. It was not properly assembled nor properly analyzed. Therefore, the conclusions that come from it are not valid.

That is all this website was trying to say, perhaps in a more creative and poignant way.

[mpb47]

Good, it worked!

One thing I've noticed about many people today is that...well, since the internetization of everything and No Child Left Behinding of education...well, younger people these days just take things very literally.

Back in the old days, you know back in the 1900s, they used to actually teach these things in school called literary devices. A literary device is, for the sake of simplicity, a manner of using the English language in creative ways to get across an important point.

Some examples are similes (that guy is as big as a house!) or methaphors (the guy is an animal!). They are intended not be literal, but to use language creatively to get a point across.

So if I call a football player an animal, in the sense that "that guy's an animal!", I don't literally mean he is an animal. I don't mean the guy is like a dog or zebra. I mean the guy is very strong, athletic, and aggressive.

It is just intended to get this point across in a more powerful and creative way.

Yes some of us have been to grad school as well. Have you ever thought that some people like your describing may have AS? I don't think I would ever have that issue with the examples you are describing, but I certainly have in my job and hobbies. I am a programmer Analyst /network admin and
expect literal instructions. But guess what? I had learn to teach myself because the instructions were not always detailed enough and assumed you would already know. In the general sense, that is expected, but with proprietary software? And sometimes they are just plain wrong. Used to drive me crazy, now I don't let it bother me anymore.

Well, ok, so I'll just spell it out.

What this website is trying to convey is that the internet is full of unreliable sources. In the old days, there was a big barrier to entry for people trying to publish information or perspectives. Amateurs trying to get their message about about medical cures, for instance, might have to pay to run an add in the back of some paper magazine advertising this "cure" for this ailment, some tonic that grows hair, or whatever.

Well let me say I only use minox and now propecia because they have numerous studies in peer reviewed journals. But when I was a teenager, they didn't exist and I didn't have a clue what peer review was. I ended up buying polysorbate 80 because I was receding and desperate.

This guy is sounding like he is getting desperate so how about taking it a bit easy on him.

It is easy to get this way when you see what mpb is doing to you. Many of us have. I know better, yet I still let my emotional side override my logical side much more than I should. I started back on propecia 3 months ago and I am still shedding like crazy. I have lost enough hair over the past 3 months that my bald spot is now obvious. Logically I should not be worried and should be expecting good regrowth. But when it is happening to you, it is hard to turn off the emotional side.

I agree with much you say, just think you should consider the state of mind of some of these posters and realize how easy it is to let fear control you.

[macster]

Haha, sorry about that! I was just being an a-hole. Sometimes you have to be an a-hole to get a reaction around here. Otherwise no one responds and stuff.

Just pissing people off to to shake things up a bit!

I shouldn't have said that probably but I do kinda mean it...younger people these days don't get a lot of these literary devices and such. I would recommend that young people utilize the internet for good reasons; you can actually make up for all the stuff you haven't learned if you hunt down the right sources on the internet. There is tons of good stuff out there, but there are megatons of bunk!

I don't entirely think those who choose not to take propecia are crazy. I just just think that such people are people who wish to take zero-risk in the hair loss area. And it is strange, because these same people do no take zero-risk in other areas. They get on planes and drive cars and such. But they will not take a .5% to 1% risk with propecia to get an 85% chance of keeping their hair!

I guess if going bald is not that big of a deal to you, then that is fine. But if going bald is causing you much pain and suffering, then it may make sense to take the .5%-1% risk to get the 85% chance of keeping your hair.

I guess for the very risk averse, what would make the most sense is to use minoxidil, but be very good about using it and use it very very well. Use lots of it, cover all you balding area with it nicely and thickly 2x a day. I have heard very good stories and the research evidence is good and seems to show that if you use minoxidil properly and in a disciplined fashion, making sure to put on a nice thick coat and working it into your scalp (think nicely marinading and seasoning a chicken...not just dabbing the stuff on top but really working it in nicely), then you may not need propecia at all and this whole conversation would be moot. You may keep your hair for a very long time this way.

If it doesn't seem to be working after a year to two, then you may consider pulling the trigger on propecia, which has a .5% to 1% risk rather than the pretty much risk-free minoxidil.

Sorry about that again guys. Was just being and arse here.

But at least I got your attention!

[Proper]

Wow, you should've beat him the **** down for low balling you. You should never be treated like that unless it was a good buddy and he said it when it was just you too so you can cluck him upside the head.

But to point out your hair in front of everybody AND to lay a hand on your head is pushing it. Everyone would've understood why you did it too if you just got up and stomp him on the chest off his seat. The **** is society coming to?

Even I feel like hunting that pansy down and killing him. Hire me... I'll find him and snipe him like in Jack Reacher. LOLLLL

[35YrsAfter]

Hi guys,

So after discovering this forum about 3 months ago, and reading it somewhat avidly since then, i've decided that it's time to actually tell my story, so I can have some people to talk to about my hair-loss.

I am 28 year old, and have been suffering from hair loss since the age of about 16 years old. I grew up with my hair being my crowing glory, thick curly hair that my Grandma would always say is "wasted on a boy". Unfortunately, one moment that I was on the way to school at 16 years old, I gelled my hair quite dramatically (as I always did) and saw right through to my scalp in the mirror in some harsh lighting. And that's when my obsession began.

Now before I continue, I have to admit that I am very fortunate. My hairloss, which is frontal thinning, with some mild temple receding, has been very slow. Given i've been losing it since I am 16 years old, to be a thinning NW2 ish now, without any medication or real attempt to treat it, I know I am lucky. My genetics are probably in my favour - I have 3 brothers, all with thick full heads of hair, and all the male relatives on my mothers side (including my grandfather) have full thick heads of hair - literally minimal loss. And my father is an NW3 at most. As to why I seem to be the only one who is suffering out of my brothers, you'll have to ask the milkman I guess.

For 12 years however, I am not sure if I can recall a single day passing where I did not double check my hair and wonder where it was going. For the first few years I was in absolute denial ("this can't happen to me", "no, it's always been thin there, yes, that's right, I was born this way), but through my 20's I only need to look at photos of myself years ago to see how it has slowly but surely progressed.

Where it has affected my life the most however, is the dramatic impact it has on me, when someone mentions it, or worse, takes the mickey out of it in front of people. My normally confident nature totally shrivels up into a crushed hurt person, and inside I am bordering on crying. I cannot truly understand why it has such an impact on me, but my enemies would only need to know that in an argument with me, they can destroy me by insulting my hair loss. I truly thought I was the only person like this - I looked at other balding people, and thought "why can they cope with it whilst i'm so different". So I continued to never talk about it, even to my own girlfriend.

For much of my 20's, I hovered in and out of thinking about treatments. I knew about propecia, but I wasn't ready to make that jump, as I didn't believe my hair loss to be severe enough (I didn't think about it in terms of "maintanance"). However, in the last year, several things have caused me to decide that enough is enough, and I have to do something about it.

Earlier this year, my girlfriend of many years took a photo of me on holiday, when it was raining, and my hair was all over the place. I saw the extent to which my hair had thinned, and I looked appalling in my own eyes. My girlfriend didn't say anything, but I could tell that she had noticed. Later that evening, I decided to talk to her about it...the first time I have ever discussed it with anyone. I practically broke down in tears, and spent hours telling her how many years I have tormented myself about it. She was genuinely shocked - she knew my hair was thinning, but said she didn't think anything of it, and she had absolutely no idea that it concerned me this much. She was used to my confident nature, and had never seem me so consumed with insecurity. To that day even, I still thought I a rarity in the balding world, in that I let it bother me that much. But after being honest with her about it, I felt a world of difference, as I finally had someone to talk to about it.

Then, a month later, I was out with some colleagues. There was a fellow worker who I didn't get on with particularly, who was pretty drunk. We were having a bit of banter with eachother, and I ended up saying something relatively innocent, but something that he clearly didn't like. His response was the roughly the following, in front of 10 other colleagues:

"Well I don't know why i've wasted so much time bantering with you, when I could have just mentioned your hair! Look at it, you're like a monk! It looks shit, you balding git!" He then proceeded to rub my hair in front of everyone and laugh. Some of my colleagues laughed too, some looked away, realising that this guy had crossed a bit of a line.

He was chuckling away, as I absolutely crumbled infront of all my colleagues. I looked down at my beer, and didn't look up for about an hour. I was mortified, and went home that night and sunk into a bout of depression. I woke up the next day, looked in the mirror before work, and promised myself that I would do something about it. If my hairloss was able to depress me that much, I owed it to myself to try my best to sort it out.

I began investigating the forums. And that was when I made the relatively startling discovery that I was not the only one like this - in fact, so many other guys, were suffering like me. From NW2 - NW7, it was utterly ruining lives. It was heartbreaking to read stories of young guys who became social hermits due to it, something I had never become. I started listening to Spencer Kobren on his radio show, and finally realised that there were thousands of people like me out there, just as consumed with worry and concern about it.

I researched hair transplants extensively, and decided that I wanted to fill in the front of my head. A good result to me could be life-transforming. After many consultations with various places, one thing that I know for sure is that I have very good donor hair. In May, I eventually booked in for a 2000 graft FUT, scheduled for November - so the time grows nearer.

I also considered the medications. Given the slow pace of my hair loss, and my favourable genetics (at least from looking at my family), I wasn't too concerned with further loss after the transplant. However, I was advised to go on Propecia. I looked into it, and after considerable panic reading about all the sides many people have, I eventually got my head around taking it. I was on the verge of ordering it, when my girlfriend called me after using my laptop (and saw my search history), and said "what is this propecia you are researching"? I explained it, but she then spent all day looking on websites like PropeciaHelp etc, because she wanted to check out if it were safe and had googled "propecia side effects". Oh dear. Given that we are planning to have children in a few years, she is now utterly adamant that I cannot risk this drug. No matter what I say to her, she has got it in her head that this drug could near castrate me, and i've now got to concede that it will cause her too much misery and fear if I take it, so I have decided not to.

I still wanted to work out some sort of regimen, and try something out so that I could see before my HT whether or not it was effective, so I continue afterwards. The regime I began in July was the following:

-Lasercomb 3x weekly
-Regenpure 2x weekly
-Revivogen shampoo & conditioner daily
-Revivogen topical nightly
-Emu oil nightly
-Saw palmetto / Beta Sistosteral / Nettle leaf tablets daily
-Tocotrienol tablet daily

I have no doubt that many on this forum will say that this is all snake oil (except regenpure, because of the Keto), and this is going to do nothing but hurt my wallet. But after my research, I decided this was the best "natural" approach I could take, before considering the only other "proven" treatment i.e. minoxidl. I am a little averse about this however, because of the sheds I read it creates, and how it can age the skin (I take great care in preserving my skin, which is in very good condition & the area of my head I am a lot more proud of..).

After 2 months of that regimen, I certainly haven't lost any more hair, and my hair looks healthier..but as to whether it is doing anything, i've no idea. It's certainly helped me feel like I am at least trying something, which helps me chill out about my hairloss somewhat.

I have looked at future treatments, like Hair Multiplication, Histogen, Replicel, and it's comforting that I live in an age whereby some sort of "cure" is around the corner. I hope that in 5 years time, I could use one of these to address any further loss I have suffered - I doubt I will be willing to go under the knife again. One scar will be enough.

One thing I have learnt though, is that nobody, male or female, can understand how badly hairloss affects someone, unless they go through it themselves. My girlfriend, who is blessed with fantastic hair, couldn't understand why I was so distressed. I finally got her to at least understand to a degree, when I got her to close her eyes, and imagine if over a course of 6 months, she woke up with gradually thinning hair. Only when she visualised this properly, did she finally see why it was so damaging. I feel so much for the many guys out there who have suffered hair loss far more severe than I have - I don't know what state I would have been in if I lost my hair to a point of NW5+ in my 20's.

Like you all, I hope that this curse upon men (& women) is one day cured. There's a lot of people out there who were destined to be happy & successful people, if they didn't have to watch there appearance deteriorate via their follicles.

Some questions I have for the forum, if those wiser than me would be willing to offer their thoughts:

-Is keratene alphactive retard any use at all? I have read that it is supposed to lower DHT like Propecia, but without the sides? For the reasons given, I don't think i'll be able to take propecia, but would KAR be any use at all? It has some clinical studies and doctors backing it, which is more than others can say.

-It is extremely important to me, that nobody knows I have had a HT. Only my girlfriend knows, and hopefully will know. I have booked 3 weeks off after my operation, of which the first half will be rest, and the 2nd half holiday. My aim is to go back to work with everybody none the wiser. Is this realistic? How have those who have had HT's on here, and wanted to hide it, managed. Particularly regarding the scar.

-What is the most promising treatment for the future out there? Replicel, Histogen, Hair Mult, anything else?


And just as a final note, the crowd-funding idea for baldness research looks fantastic. I for one, would be more than happy to contribute, as I believe the millions around the world would do to. It just needs promotion, and my respect to those who are leading the way.

All the best,

PB.

Your hair loss progression sounds similar to my own. To me it felt like my life was fast-forwarded to old age. Accepting hair loss gets easier as you get older, but no one wants to look older than they are. If I could go back, I would have just shaved my head. Instead, I had an early version of hair restoration surgery. It sucked and today I have to deal with scars. Fortunately, Dr. Cole has been able to make it look more natural. How do you look with a short haircut?

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

[Notcoolanymore]

Wow, you should've beat him the **** down for low balling you. You should never be treated like that unless it was a good buddy and he said it when it was just you too so you can cluck him upside the head.

But to point out your hair in front of everybody AND to lay a hand on your head is pushing it. Everyone would've understood why you did it too if you just got up and stomp him on the chest off his seat. The **** is society coming to?

Even I feel like hunting that pansy down and killing him. Hire me... I'll find him and snipe him like in Jack Reacher. LOLLLL

That dude was a total turd. Paddy never came back to his own thread. Looks like he threw in the towel already.

[PaddyBateman]

Hi guys,

Sorry about the delay in replying. Swamped at work.

*NotCoolAnymore* & *mpb47* - (just to clarify, she doesn't read my history, it was actually her laptop I was borrowing, and she say the propecia history.) I get your points, that we might not be together in the future. Thing is, I regard that as extremely unlikely, we are moving in together, been together for a long time, and are pretty rock solid. So I end up considering my future, and kids, with her. I together get your point about it being *my* decision, but so long as it causes her so much worry about me taking it, the weigh-up doesn't feel worth it. Believe i've tried discussing it and explaining the risks (or lack of) with her, but this is a classic case of where the internet is a curse - all you have to do is google "propecia side effects" and you are presented with so much awful information that it would put anyone off. It did with me at first, and it took time and careful research (and listening to Spencer Kobren's broadcast specifically on Propecia) for me to get round it. To get her to see it the way I do is tough. I could just take the drug, of course - and i've considered that. It's particularly why i'm trying to throw the kitchen sink at it now, to check if anything else works!

I'm slightly put off by minoxidl for the moment, due to the number of people reporting terrible sheds on it, which do not return (perhaps bad internet advice again though..). And the fact, that you have to apply it twice a day - I can tolerate once a day, but to go outside / work with a liquid on my hair that makes it look dreadfully thin...so much of my morning styling is to make it look as less thin as possible. Again, i've not ruled it out though, i've no doubt I will if my current regimen cometh to nothing..

*Proper* - yeh you're right, he was a total c-word. And any other time, I would have dealt firmly with someone who did that, but it was the humiliation in front of my colleagues, about my hair (the one true soft spot) that just made me crumble. However, I should add, I got him back, right where it hurts him & embarrassed him severely in front of plenty of people in a similar situation after finding out his weak spot. Revenge is sweet.

*35yearsafter* - I look fine with a short-ish haircut. But my goodness, does a slightly longer cut suit me and my head-shape more. I've got a hair-transplant, FUT 2000 graft booked in for November. This hopefully should tidy up my front part, and my aim to to then "maintain" the rest of it, before something better comes along (histogen/replicel?). My hairloss is very slow, and it's honestly hard to notice it change at all. I have to look back at photos some years ago to really tell the difference. Is it possible at all, that at my age, it could slow down? That you hit a level, before your body just calms with it? (a mature hairline...). Or is this just a poppy**** fantasy.

Also, to all - Keratene Alphaactive Retard..any good? I've read it's had clinical trials, reco's by good docs, and good clinics, and it reduces DHT (in a different way to Propecia). Is this worth a shout? I'm not sure it can be as easily dismissed as other things, owing to the "evidence" that actually looks a tad more concrete.

All the best,

PB.

[35YrsAfter]

Also, to all - Keratene Alphaactive Retard..any good? I've read it's had clinical trials, reco's by good docs, and good clinics, and it reduces DHT (in a different way to Propecia). Is this worth a shout? I'm not sure it can be as easily dismissed as other things, owing to the "evidence" that actually looks a tad more concrete.

All the best,

PB.

It's definitely worth taking a look at. It often takes a while before there is a clear picture of possible side effects. We all could uses a better alternative to Propecia and Avodart. As I mentioned in the forum before, the best non-hair transplant result I have ever seen was on a patient who had been taking Avodart for 8 years and had an ACell/PRP treatment.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

[PaddyBateman]

It's definitely worth taking a look at. It often takes a while before there is a clear picture of possible side effects. We all could uses a better alternative to Propecia and Avodart. As I mentioned in the forum before, the best non-hair transplant result I have ever seen was on a patient who had been taking Avodart for 8 years and had an ACell/PRP treatment.

I am going to get a DHT test done, then start Keratene Alpha-active Retard, then get a DHT test done afterwards. If it shows a decrease, then i'll continue with it for the longer haul. I'll also inform the forum of my results for their use.

Although, what if my DHT test shows that I already have an average level of DHT, or even a low level - would that mean that anti-DHT drugs would be no good against MPB for me?

Also, what sort of results did that patient get ? From what state, to what sort of improved state? Interesting you mention ACell/PRP, that was also another angle I was looking at, but i've read consistently negative reviews on here for that. What do you make of it?

Thanks,

PB.

[Dan26]

Dude dont waste your time and money on keratine...if anything take a very small dose of fin ie 0.05mg/day