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  1. #11
    Senior Member Artista's Avatar
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    Jotronic, I am so APPRECIATIVE of your comments made today, THANK YOU Bro! As you had mentioned, Bobman did not expect to achieve a full head of hair . He had hoped for a realistic IMPROVEMENT to his scalp after surgery and he got it! It is POSSIBLE for NW6' guys! Joe and Bob are just 2 of so MANY others who have experienced the same coverage via HTs. Hopefully more members will share their experiences here .. !

  2. #12
    Doctor Representative 35YrsAfter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotronic View Post
    Bobman did not "refuse" anything, at least not in the context that he was hiding something. Bobman has posted more photos of his head than most other online patients and by the time he posted the photos in the thread you reference he was pretty much done with the photo taking routine. He's given back to the community a hundred fold and wasn't going to be called out by a newbie. He paid his dues already.

    And why is a part down the middle required? Who wears this style nowadays anyway? It is 2013, not 1978, and middle parts look silly on anyone without long hair. I find this point to be useless as even Bobman answered his critic by happily saying that his result was not full density and it was never intended to be. This is a numbers game and the numbers do not add up for full density.

    Btw, here is a video of Bobman getting unrehearsed reactions to his hair transplant and the final reaction is outdoors and you can see that it is not full density. The point of having a hair transplant as a NW6 is to get back as much as possible so you can have options and if one of those options is the ILLUSION of a full head of hair in some circumstances then so be it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Pv...34A9A99D96A284
    I'm simply stating the limitations of hair transplant surgery. On average a patient has between 5000 and 7000 follicular units available for transplant to the top. When this person was a teenager, he may have had 25,000 follicular units on top. Replacing all of that hair is simply not possible, so any great result that a Norwood 6 gets from hair transplant surgery represents an illusion of coverage. In other words, it's not going to look like a teenage head of hair in certain lighting and styling situations.

    35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
    Cole Hair Transplant
    1045 Powers Place
    Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
    Phone 678-566-1011
    Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.
    Last edited by 35YrsAfter; 02-22-2015 at 04:03 PM.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Artista's Avatar
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    Jotronic, I just got finished watching the video. What a great example to show everybody out there on our forum! The spontaneous reactions by those people interviewed are priceless-Thanks again Jotronic. When I first met Bobman I didn't expect his hair transplants To look as good and natural as it does . In person I certainly was impressed!!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35YrsAfter View Post
    I'm simply stating the limitations of hair transplant surgery. On average a patient has between 5000 and 7000 follicular units available for transplant to the top. When this person was a teenager, he may have had 25,000 follicular units on top. Replacing all of that hair is simply not possible, so any great result that a Norwood 6 gets from hair transplant surgery represents an illusion of coverage. In other words, it's not going to look like a teenage head of hair in certain lighting and styling situations.

    35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
    Cole Hair Transplant
    1045 Powers Place
    Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
    Phone 678-566-1011
    Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.
    Then why not reference one of your own patients? I mean, you referenced Bobman as a great result (appreciated) but then go on to talk about how he refused to show his result in a specific angle in bright sunlight. Was that even necessary?

    And there is no illusion of coverage. That is a misconception. Coverage is coverage, period. The illusion you get when an HT is done right is one of density.
    www.HassonandWong.com

    All opinions are my own and may not necessarily be shared by Dr. Wong and/or Dr. Hasson.

    If you are interested in having an online consultation visit www.hassonandwong.ca

    To view my story and history visit my website at www.hairtransplantmentor.com

  5. #15
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    Artista,

    Glad to participate and glad you liked the video. It was a lot of fun. We shot it several years ago. We need to find time to do more like this. I've got sooo many ideas yet not enough time to bring them to fruition

    Btw, TBT is live tonight and I'm on again as co-host.
    www.HassonandWong.com

    All opinions are my own and may not necessarily be shared by Dr. Wong and/or Dr. Hasson.

    If you are interested in having an online consultation visit www.hassonandwong.ca

    To view my story and history visit my website at www.hairtransplantmentor.com

  6. #16
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    jotroic, as a life long strip monger, i'm not surprised that you refuse to recognize that there is something called the illusion of coverage. i guess that when you perpetuate the myth that strips in your hands don't leave disgusting, ugly scars, you can also perpetuate the concept that "coverage is coverage" and obviously erroneous myth you spread for years that strips produce better results than FUE. in fact, it is possible to cover the entire scalp with a single hair that is grown long enough. that is not coverage, however. that is an illusion of coverage.

    you may refuse to face the fact there there is rarely enough hair to give the illusion of coverage in a nw 5 and never enough hair to give the illusion of coverage in a nw 6, but his is the simple God's truth. one is never going to cover 225 to 250 sq. cm of bald skin with 5000 to 7000 follicular groups. it is simply mathematically impossible. now, i know you guys sometimes do 5000 grafts in one session and then do more, but you fail to explain that you typically split the natural follicular groups into smaller segments so that you actually place the same follicular group more than once and then bill double or three times for that same group.

    i'm no fan of discussing any specific patient whose had a hair transplant. i also, have no taste in my mouth for salesmen that pick guys who are just trying explain their perspective of hair transplant surgery. Since you did it, i'll be frank. there is something quite different from a photo result and a real result and you are a master of the photo result. that my friend is also called an illusion of coverage.

  7. #17
    Senior Member didi's Avatar
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    wow..I didn't know H&W splits FUs too? at least he is not calling it stem cell hair transplant

    Jotronic

    You said in TBT radio show that average NW6 can get 6000-8000 grafts, that's not bad for nw6 but I would have thought its a bit of a stretch.

    anyway,if nw6 lost 25 000 units...6000-8000 grafts will look too thin under sunlight, lets not full ourselves its illusion of density not real coverage

  8. #18
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    Wow, Camp Cole coming out swinging and for no reason at all. Let's get something straight. When I say that there is no such thing as an illusion of coverage, I'm talking about what we see with out eyes. Having enough hair transplanted to cover the scalp with a moderate and conservative hair style is not an illusion. My own coverage is not an illusion because my hair covers my scalp. I do not grow it super long to cover it either. It is clean, short on the back and sides, and a few inches long on top. I have enough hair to allow for real coverage. I do not have enough hair for real density. Seems to me that our definitions are complete polar opposites.

    I'm not sure what nerve I touched on but it seems to be one that you feel warrants a flurry of insults and bold faced lies. That's fine, I'm used to it. The one thing I've learned over the years is that when one hasn't anything tangible to say they tend to throw what they can against the barn door to see what sticks.

    Didi,

    LOL! I think if we split FU's we could sell that quite easily as stem cell multiplication. We will mix in PRP, Acell, RU then stick a 9 volt battery in and let it sit overnight. If we're lucky, we may even get 70% regeneration!!!! Whaddyathink?

    Monger out!

    And I stand by my statement. Remember, it is a range of grafts, 6000 being on the low end of average with "average" meaning average donor density and average donor laxity. I've seen guys that can't get past 5000 and of course I've seen guys that get way more than 8000. It is difficult to nail down but it is what it is, an average if not a loose one.
    www.HassonandWong.com

    All opinions are my own and may not necessarily be shared by Dr. Wong and/or Dr. Hasson.

    If you are interested in having an online consultation visit www.hassonandwong.ca

    To view my story and history visit my website at www.hairtransplantmentor.com

  9. #19
    Senior Member Artista's Avatar
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    Unfortunately I'm working this evening and won't be able to attend the Live show ! It seems that this discussion will transfer to the show.. Hope there isn't any hostilities. We are all in this together

  10. #20
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    Wow, surprised at the hostility in this thread especially as H&W have the most extensive hd video catalogue of Norwood 5 & 6 restorations with comb throughs.

    Still amazed how people bash FUT. Both techniques have their places.

    FUT will produce more grafts in the long run than FUE
    FUT enables the best hair to be taken (if you don't know why read up on variable areas of donor density, donor thinning & miniturisation as well as retrograde alopecia)
    With each FUT procedure 5-10% of follicles end up in the waste bucket because they are dormant and not hair producing at the time of the procedure
    FUE allows cherry picking of grafts for a higher hair to follicle ratio for the first 2000-3000 follicles
    FUE will generally allow tighter haircuts
    Open for debate where we stand on yield for the 2 techniques in 2013

    Both have advantages & disadvantages.

    If you're a Norwood 6 it's quite feasible for many to get 8000-9000 FU over 3 procedures. It's also likely that you can get 1500-2000 more via FUE on top of that. That puts many people in the region of 9500-10500 maxed out. The average Norwood 6 will have to tackle 240cm2 of bald scalp but it varies depending on the size of your head.

    We're born with about 45000 follicles and a Norwood 6 will lose about 22-23000 follicles. That leaves about 22000 in a Norwood 6 donor and we are getting close to taking half of that these days. 10,000 over 240 cm2 will give an average density of 41.66 Fu/cm2. Of course you'll lose a tiny % yield wise.

    Of course if you put 4200 in the rear half and 5800 in the front half you're looking at approx 48fu/cm2 in the front half and 35fu/cm2. For most people that will make them very happy but it's a long road.

    Ever tempted to tap into FUE Joe?

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