Going back on Proscar... please weigh in

[newkid]

I am hoping to get some input or suggestions based on member experiences as I'm thinking about resuming Proscar.

Long story short...
-Without going into great detail, I have previously taken name brand Propecia for about 2 years.
-From being nearly completely bald, my hair grew back to a similar state of being 18 years old. Was truly remarkable.
-After failing to renew my prescription on time and going about 2 weeks without taking it before popping my next pill, disaster struck. There is no sense in going through the horror stories, but I experienced every side effect known to man. It was as if someone cut off my penis and took all my energy away.
-Went through the usual visiting doctors and all kinds of tests to be told I was "normal" all across the board.
-I went through this terrible time for about 2.5 years. I eventually did a great deal of research and resorted myself by taking HCG + Clomid on my own and was completely restored to normalcy.

Today...
My hair is in relatively good condition. After the side effects, I made the mistake of stopping all treatment including minoxidil and vitamins. Unfortunately, as expected, I have experienced regress. However, I have been taking 12% minoxidil that I can get from a local hair doctor for about 6 months and have seen some minor improvements. While this is somewhat promising, it is not nearly where I was in about 2 months of Propecia. This 12% Minox is also priced through the roof.

Now that I am recovered, I am wondering if any members have experienced sides, gone off, recovered and resumed? I now have a prescription for generic Proscar ($30 for entire year) as opposed to $50 per month of Propecia.

Differences...
I was previously in very bad shape... meaning that I was really overweight. I now workout almost daily and am in pretty great shape.

My question...
Is my thinking of giving this a second chance worth it? PLEASE... not looking for scare tactics, but experiences.
If my wanting to go back on is perceived as worth while, can anyone please recommend a dosage/starting protocol?

I am 29 years old. Thanks for any insights in advance.

[UK_]

Count yourself lucky that you recovered from the side effects, I think you should also contact the PFS foundation and let them know that after 2.5 years of sides you managed to recover using HCG and Clomid.

Please donate http://www.pfsfoundation.org/donate/

Imagine if we could cure the side effects of propecia and obtain the benefits it has on our hair too.

From the way I see it, often people who have great results with propecia are also the ones who experience side effects, i'd be grateful if you could elaborate on your "research" into the side effects too, because evidently it was effective.

[newkid]

As requested, I will share the details of my recovery, but not giving "exact" details as I am worried some people would just follow my protocol and do some serious damage to their bodies. I have read some stories on other forums of how people used HCG and Clomid to overcome side effects and it is scary what people will do when they are desperate. These drugs are SERIOUS and can do SERIOUS damage.

My story...

Sexual sides:
Shrunken penis
Shrunken testicles
No feeling in genitals
No libido
Impotence
Premature ejaculation
Watery ejaculation
At times no ejaculation even after a week of no ejaculation
Aches in testicles, etc.
You get the picture... everything that is known and out there, I experienced.

Mental/physical sides:
Severe insomnia (had multiple overnight sleep studies)
Brain fog
Lack of energy
Always tired
Would stand over the toilet for 5 mins before I could urinate
Puffy nipples, etc.
Again... no point in listing everything as I experienced them all

I am part of an executive health care program where I have access to an exceptional level of care from top physicians. Therefore, I went through a ringer of tests and saw a wide range of doctors from a nephrologist to a urologist and everything in between to try and figure this stuff out. No one was able to pinpoint the cause of my issues based on test results.

I initially did not think the cause of these problems was Propecia because I had been off it for sometime. Looking back, I imagine I had begun experiencing side effects at such a minor level that I never even noticed them. They must have gathered strength like a snowball and only fully revealed themselves after I missed taking it for two weeks. After researching, I figured it was the Propecia as I heard about the "carry over" effects and then submitted to a bioavailable test. Here is the thing... there are ranges on these tests. Everything that was tested (I will not go into great details as explaining each level is too much) was on or near the "low end of normal". However, normal is somewhat subjective. For example, if my normal T level was 950 at one time and was now 450... while 450 is still considered normal as a result, this is not necessarily my normal range. Therefore, the problem people face with these side effects is that there is no starting point or baseline to compare. So if you are about to start Propecia and never have, I would SUGGEST submitting to a bioavailable test and have everything tested so that there is a baseline in the event that things go south. By the way... if you mention this baseline to doctors, they will not buy it. They will acknowledge that it could be possible, but will not budge if they are not familiar with Propecia sides. They will think you just want Test or something and will give you a story about how they could lose their medical license for administering drugs that are not required.

Fast forward....
After multiple doctors and multiple bioavailable tests I was given Cialis. I was told this was all I was getting. Didn't do much for me. I then found a doctor who would give me Test in the gel form... for anyone that knows this stuff, it is the least effective form of admin and from what I read, will do nothing really for you at all if you have sides from propecia.

This is when I started to dig in big time and do my own research as I was sick of people saying I was find when I knew I wasn't. Keep in mind that I am in Canada... here, doctors have no understanding at all in my experience as to the side effects of Propecia vs the USA in my research.

Main ingredient...
I did extensive research on this topic and everything that is related to it. And when I say extensive, I mean MONTHS of research every day. The main thing that I did not understand was my shrunken genitals (both penis and testicles) and when I mentioned this to all of the doctors, who all examined me physically... they all without saying it directly, said I was making it up. They thought it was some psychological issue I had because it was "impossible" for the penis to shrink unless you are much later in age or put on a great deal of weight. Keep in mind that I was already down a lot of weight at this time as I had begun eating better and working out again.

While researching I found that there ARE other ways men can experience shrunken genitals: it's called hypogonadism. I will not go into detail here, but to be classified as a "hypogonadal male", it must show up in a blood test result. In my case, it did not. However, if you do your research and locate the best doctors on HRT, they will all note in their findings that while it may not show up on a blood test, their patients who experienced problems after taking Propecia experienced all the signs of hypogonadism. They don't understand why or how it happens, but it does. I should note here that another sign of it and which I encountered was a lack of facial hair. I never had to shave.

Researching Hypogonadism is what ultimately lead me to my recovery. In my findings based on results from doctors and testimonies from patients who were treated, if you are someone who fits into this hypogonadism symptom camp... this is really the only type of individual that has been proven to be fully cured. Keep in mind, I focused primarily on hypogonadism in my research, so do not think there is no hope if you have sides, but not the hypogonadism. I am just saying that the recovery stories I read about all included hypogonadism.

Using logic...
I looked up the use of testosterone in all forms, amounts, durations etc. If you are in this camp, starting Test will basically mean that it is for life. It is HRT. I didn't want this, nor did I think I needed it as I was now back in good shape and had previously played sports all my life. It just didn't add up to me. Furthermore, I was already complaining of shrunken testicles and when I mean small berries, I am talking very small. Again, size of testicles is subjective. There is a "normal" range for their size. So if I had walnuts at one time and now had olives say... the doc said I was fine.

What is the main side effective of taking Test? Shrunken testicles because your bodies natural Test production shuts down and the boys shrivel up. So I thought, if I have already smaller nuts, why would I want them to get even smaller? This was my logic moving forward...

Bigger nuts...
Keep in mind that at this time I was still early on in my research and did not have the complete understanding of the different bioavailable test results and how Test production occurs in the body. So... without even knowing the finer details, I started looking up how to increase testicle size. This proved to be the path that lead to the gold mine.

Without getting into too much detail, there are crazy people out there who will inject themselves in the nuts with synthetic compounds to achieve grapefruit side nuts. Very stupid. Beyond the crazy info, this is where I started to get a real education and understanding of how the body works. There are is only one way for your testicles to increase in size, AN INCREASE IN NATURAL TEST PRODUCTION.

Again... will not go into detail on how all of this stuff works. Can you buy natural test boosters at health food stores? Yes. However, they will not do what you need if you are reading this right now. They can have some impact on middle aged men in the bedroom or can help you lift more in the gym if you are already healthy, but not if you have propecia sides.

Upon further research, I discovered ways to naturally boost test in the body through diet, vitamins, working out etc. There is some validity to this, but it will not get you of the water completely. Still, every little bit counts when it comes to feeling better and having more energy throughout the day. You can easily find this info out. Also keep in mind that at this point in time, I am getting a bioavailable test done every few weeks to track my results. If you are not tracking your results, you cannot measure them. I was noticing a minor improvement in the results.

Fast forward and I am continuing to research and then I find the next piece... HCG and Clomid are the only ways to get larger testicles. How does it work? They increases NATURAL testosterone levels. Keep in mind what I mentioned above... taking test from your doctor shrinks your testicles because it shuts down your natural test production because you are getting it from injections. Have you ever head the expression, the water raises all boats? This is what can happen in most men when their natural test levels are increased through these drugs. It is not a temporary boost like gel or injectable Test, but rather, a permanent boost because the natural baseline is raised.

This is where it all came together for me... if you do not have hypogonadism based on genetics or illness of some sort, who are the guys who routinely take test, shrink their nuts, and then take drugs to return their nuts and test levels back to size? Bodybuilders... guys who take steroids. Also keep in mind that beyond hypogonadism, HCG is administered to young kids and teens with dwarfed penises. Yes, HCG can increase penis size. NO... do not look up the studies online and take crazy amounts thinking that you'll grow an inch on your penis. It could happen, but you'll screw up your whole body, never be able to have kids, and still not be able to get a hard on. Don't do it.

Researching steroids...
The information on propecia side effect websites as it relates to HRT, HCG, and Clomid is child's play in comparison to what is seen in the steroid world. We're talking about guys who manipulate test levels on their own... or in some cases (the pros or lucky amateurs) while being monitored by doctors.

This is where I got all the good info... the doctors who prescribe steroids to their patients. Isn't this illegal you are thinking? Probably. However, what if there are doctors who are HRT specialists, but take steroids themselves because they are gym rats? And there is the answer... there are EXPERTS on these forums who are doctors and give advice on PCT (Post Cycle Therapy). After you take juice for a cycle, you must bring your body back to its normal T levels by doing a PCT (most often this is done with some combination of HCG, Clomid, and Nolvadex).

If you are thinking that you can just read steroid forums and find the information you want or find out who these people, you are mistaken. It took me about a month of being involved online before I figured it out on just one forum. Steroids are being bought and sold through these sites illegally all the time, so I bet they are monitored and doctors would obviously lose their medical license if found out. However, if you dig, you can uncover it.

Putting 2 and 2 together...
I had months worth of my own bioavailable results. I studied the protocols of the leading HRT doctors in the US who were at the forefront of treating people with propecia side effects. I also studied the research papers on people with hypogonadism (mainly teens). I also studied the findings of doctors who experiment with the administration of HCG. I compared all these research papers and blood test results and prescribed protocols with that of the information I found on the steroid forums. There are truckloads of guys on these forums on HRT because they abused steroids all their life. There are even more guys posting their results after a cycle was just completed. What I'm saying is... you will find more blood test results on these forums than anywhere else online.

I comprised a list of comparisons of blood test results, protocols, results and submitted my findings for feedback based on my own test results on one of the forums. I told my story and explained my months of research and findings and was then eventually contacted by two guys whom I knew were doctors on the site and they gave me the SAME advice (protocol). As well, a number of very active users who did numerous cycles also gave me the SAME protocol and that there is when I decided to go for it.

I tracked down PHARMACY grade HCG and Clomid, did the protocol and was recovered. I had a dead dick that never moved for years to all of the sudden walking down the street and having to hide an erection because my penis was rubbing up against my jeans.

Why I'm not disclosing the finer details...
If you are in bad shape right now, simply doing what I did could put you in a far worse position. Keep in mind that I did months of research, had numerous test results spanning a few months, saw numerous specialists, compared test results, read research papers, and had pharmacy grade drugs. If you know anything about this these drugs, you will know that almost no doctor on the planet will prescribe you Clomid because it is an "off label" drug for men... meaning, it is designed for women. As well, HCG is one of the most widely feared and misunderstood drugs out there. There are some doctors who will refuse to prescribe more than 250iu in a single injection fearing it will make you sterile where others will go as high as 1500iu. And then, in the case where an individual has dwarfed penis, it could be 3000iu.

YOU MUST DO THE RESEARCH ON YOUR OWN. Some people have a negative feedback loop with HCG, meaning that it represses Test in some cases rather than boosting it. If you are taking it without knowing what you are doing, you could lower your levels and then get into real trouble. You could also make yourself sterile. Clomid is also dangerous as you could shut yourself down completely and need HRT for the rest of your life.

**** THERE IS SO MUCH FALSE INFORMATION ONLINE, ESPECIALLY ON PROPECIA SIDE EFFECT WEBSITES****
-I have read stories where guys have taken Clomid, Nolvadex and HCG all at once for 2 months. Use your head!
-I have read of guys who have taken Clomid for months at a time. Use your head!

I have given you the details of how and where I went about reaching this recovery. I will not go any further because I know that there are people out there who would instantly do what I did and could really screw themselves up. Remember... if you have gone "x" months/years with these problems, it is worth spending "x" months researching this stuff. Do no read for a couple days, ask some strangers online what they did and start injecting yourself and popping pills.

There is always a cure, do not give up!

[newkid]

I just reread this and forgot to mention an important point/discovery which tipped me off into the direction I went early on.

INSOMNIA and any sort of trouble sleeping...
Research the effects of low testosterone/hormone imbalance on insomnia/sleep apnea. I failed to mention that after multiple overnight sleep tests where nothing was uncovered, this is what led me to start digging into my research on testosterone.

I was originally on a number of different sleeping meds which worked for a time, but then stopped once my body got accustomed to them. The moment I stopped taking them, I was back to being up all night.

One of the most overlooked causes of insomnia is testosterone/hormone issues because your sleep doctor is not seeing your blood tests. No sleep doctor ever asks for this info so there is a potential missing piece to the pie in diagnosing a problem. Your doctor who administers a blood test/bioavailable test is probably not in communication with your sleep doctor.

Bottom line... start taking blood tests/bioavailable tests now and every so often so that you can compare the results.

I went from sleeping 2-3 crappy hours of sleep a night for years to having trouble waking up after 8-10 hours of sleep after finishing my protocol. No joke. There is a real relationship between the two.

[UK_]

Thanks for that, I really think you should submit all of this to the PFS Foundation.

I think everyone experiences 'improvement' after 1 - 3 years of suffering PFS. Your doctors stated that no male should experience penile shrinkage until later in life... when sex hormones decline lol which is exactly what propecia does.

Remember, there's no such thing as a side effect, drugs have effects and that's that.

Thank you and once again, please donate to PFS Foundation, the entire board are unpaid volunteers and are surprisingly close to figuring out a potential therapeutic treatment.

1) There was a member on PropeciaHelp who had success with high doses of organic Tribulus, did you ever try this compound?

2) Also, when you initiated your finasteride treatment, did you experience an initial increase in sex drive?

[newkid]

1. Tribulus is an over the counter natural test booster... I mentioned this in my post. If you are someone who just needs a small bump in Test, sure it could help out. However, it would be temporary and you would have to keep on taking it and over and over because while it can give a slight nudge, the effects are temporary and will end once you stop taking it. Over the counter test boosters are a complete rip off. They're usually around $100 for a month supply. I would bet that if you were to take a blood test before and during its usage levels would barely move up in most men.

So if you only require a little bump, try it and it might work. If you have hypogonadism symptoms, you are just throwing $100 down the drain month after month for a bandaid. The cost of my HCG and Clomid combined for my recovery cost less than that.

If you think you fall into this category of just needing a nudge for performance... consider using vitamins that are cheaper and will do a better job in this area for you:
Macca $20 for two months
Siberian Ginseng $15 for two months
Odorless Garlic $15 for two months
Green Tea Extract $12 for two months
L-Arginine $24 for two months

Buy these as NONE performance supplements. By that I mean, if you go to a GNC and want Arginine for working out, it will cost over $100 because it will have all sorts of other stuff in it. Buy their own GNC brand that is strictly L-Arginine with nothing else and you save nearly $75. Same thing for the Macca... buy it at GNC in the wellness section and you'll pay $75 for a small bottle. Buy it at Wallmart in the vitamins section and save again.

Read up on these vitamins. Take them daily together in the morning and take the Macca and Arginine before sex and you will see a noticeable difference INSTANTLY. These will not boost your sex drive, but will increase
hardness/fullness right away.

2. Can't remember this because it was years ago

[mpb47]

I am hoping to get some input or suggestions based on member experiences as I'm thinking about resuming Proscar.



Today...
My hair is in relatively good condition. After the side effects, I made the mistake of stopping all treatment including minoxidil and vitamins. Unfortunately, as expected, I have experienced regress. However, I have been taking 12% minoxidil that I can get from a local hair doctor for about 6 months and have seen some minor improvements. While this is somewhat promising, it is not nearly where I was in about 2 months of Propecia. This 12% Minox is also priced through the roof.

Now that I am recovered, I am wondering if any members have experienced sides, gone off, recovered and resumed? I now have a prescription for generic Proscar ($30 for entire year) as opposed to $50 per month of Propecia.


My question...
Is my thinking of giving this a second chance worth it? PLEASE... not looking for scare tactics, but experiences.
If my wanting to go back on is perceived as worth while, can anyone please recommend a dosage/starting protocol?

I am 29 years old. Thanks for any insights in advance.

Well long story short I was on it for about 5 years then went off because of sides. I was able to maintain about 50-60% of what it had given me with minox alone. I was able to do this for a few years but starting about 1.5-2 years ago it started progressing again, but slowly. Recently reached the point where people noticed I was getting a spot in the back so decided to give it another go. There are several threads on ramping back up on propecia and that is how I am doing it. More conservative than most probably but tomorrow makes it a full month with no issues. Again my approach was very conservative...only .25mg a week and starting tomorrow it will be 2x a week and so on. Some of the others who started about the same time I did take it much more frequently but even smaller amounts by diluting it-you will have to read the thread for those instructions if interested. I picked .25 for several reasons: It is easy to cut in this amount and I had read a clinical study that suggested that amount is almost effective at reducing dht as the full 1mg dose. Well that might mean you can get sides almost as easy so taking it slow. If it doesn't work well I will be ok with that as well. Years ago a friend used to give me a hard time about being in denial about it. Well we have recently reconnected and while catching up she mentioned a family member that was now totally bald. She didn't say a word when I added that I was getting some mpb as well. But I didn't go so far to say I was on propecia so I am good ether way ..ha.


Any way consider ramping back up on it. I am at only 1 month but so far so good for me. Good luck.

[TheSwingingGate]

Great post OP, thanks for going into detail.

As someone who has visited those bodybuilding forums, I found your post intriguing. I don't have the medical knowledge that you do, but most of that made sense to me.

I don't have much to add, just that I am "tapering on" Propecia like MPB47. .25mg every 6-7 days to see if this works better than previous attempts.

[deuce]

Wow for someone who just started FIN this thread is truly scary. Damn I hate hairloss.

[UK_]

Wow for someone who just started FIN this thread is truly scary. Damn I hate hairloss.

Yeah... 2 treatments is just not enough.

You might want to consider CB if you do get sides.