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  1. #21
    Doctor Representative 35YrsAfter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californication View Post
    What do you think are the root causes? I would say it's obviously genes and it's definitely not indicative of a larger actual problem (aside from cosmetic which is of course still significant which is why we're here but not more than that)

    Good to see you're caring less and less though provided you're happy.

    Edit: Nvm, you answered this.
    Root Causes? MPB is genetic in origin. Take identical twins for instance. Both inherited male pattern baldness. One of the twins is castrated at 9 years old. The castrated brother never develops beard hair at all or body hair to the degree his brother did by age 40. The castrated brother is beardless and has a teenage head of hair when he is 40. The other brother is a Norwood 6 and has a beard and body hair. DHT is like a genetic "catalyst" that can either encourage hair or miniaturize existing hair.

    If MPB were cancer, AIDS or heart disease, I personally believe there would be a cure by now. If I were to do research, I would begin the research by extracting beard and miniaturized scalp hair with surrounding tissue from test patients. I would run every test imaginable to compare the two and document the differences. Once the differences have been determined, I would work on developing ways to counteract the differences in the miniaturized scalp hair to move it toward being more like the thick healthy beard hair.

    Another approach is to discover why PRP increases hair shaft diameter in some men, why minoxidil helps a little. Of course Propecia and Avodart kind of moves a man closer to castration in a chemical sort of way.

    Here at Dr. Cole's office, I enjoy reading technical doctor to doctor studies. The whole process of hair loss is much more complicated than it appears on the surface.

    35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
    www.forhair.com
    Cole Hair Transplant
    1045 Powers Place
    Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
    Phone 678-566-1011
    email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
    Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35YrsAfter View Post
    Root Causes? MPB is genetic in origin. Take identical twins for instance. Both inherited male pattern baldness. One of the twins is castrated at 9 years old. The castrated brother never develops beard hair at all or body hair to the degree his brother did by age 40. The castrated brother is beardless and has a teenage head of hair when he is 40. The other brother is a Norwood 6 and has a beard and body hair. DHT is like a genetic "catalyst" that can either encourage hair or miniaturize existing hair.
    Certainly at some point DHT wasn't a problem as you were not going bald, so what triggered it? There is no "genetic alarm clock" that triggers MPB for no reason.

    There are studies that show significant differences in hormonal profiles between balding and non-balding people. Associations have been made between baldness and certain health conditions.

    Obviously something else is going in the background as MPB is not as simple as:
    DHT -> dumb genetics -> MPB

  3. #23
    Doctor Representative 35YrsAfter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2020 View Post
    Certainly at some point DHT wasn't a problem as you were not going bald, so what triggered it? There is no "genetic alarm clock" that triggers MPB for no reason.

    There are studies that show significant differences in hormonal profiles between balding and non-balding people. Associations have been made between baldness and certain health conditions.

    Obviously something else is going in the background as MPB is not as simple as:
    DHT -> dumb genetics -> MPB
    Since researchers do not yet thoroughly understand the process of male pattern baldness the missing details may be surprising when they are uncovered.

    Are you suggesting that if a man or woman with a full head of hair were given the hormones and the level of those hormones that exist in the blood of a Norwood 6 or 7, they too would develop the classic horseshoe hair loss pattern?

    Hormones triggering hair loss in genetically predisposed men only miniaturizes hair in the classic areas of hair loss on a man's head. Everywhere else, hair grows just fine. In fact, many bald headed men have excessive body hair and in the case of beard hair, it's often twice the caliber of healthy head hair. So DHT that courses through all the blood vessels is not a universal hair killer or hair caliber shrinker.

    35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
    www.forhair.com
    Cole Hair Transplant
    1045 Powers Place
    Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
    Phone 678-566-1011
    email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
    Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35YrsAfter View Post
    Are you suggesting that if a man or woman with a full head of hair were given the hormones and the level of those hormones that exist in the blood of a Norwood 6 or 7, they too would develop the classic horseshoe hair loss pattern?
    I'm suggesting that MPB can happen to anyone given the right environment. Fix what's broken, and MPB will stop.


    Quote Originally Posted by 35YrsAfter View Post
    Hormones triggering hair loss in genetically predisposed men only miniaturizes hair in the classic areas of hair loss on a man's head. Everywhere else, hair grows just fine.
    You had DHT all your life, why does MPB start at 25, 35 or 45? What has changed? What is the difference between balding and non-balding man because certainly it's not DHT.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2020 View Post
    I'm suggesting that MPB can happen to anyone given the right environment. Fix what's broken, and MPB will stop.

    You had DHT all your life, why does MPB start at 25, 35 or 45? What has changed? What is the difference between balding and non-balding man because certainly it's not DHT.
    Nearly all doctors and researchers agree that male pattern baldness is based upon a man's inherited genetic predisposition. Identical twin studies show that cigarette smoking, sunburn, and stress for example can exacerbate hair loss, but genetics are the main factor in the development of androgenic alopecia.

    Timing factors involved and related to when predetermined characteristics appear are common. For example, you don't see many 9 year olds that need to shave and it often takes several years for a full heavy beard to develop.

    If male pattern baldness weren't considered undesirable, it would be looked upon in a similar way as beard hair development in men. Cultures throughout history have found unusual things attractive or unattractive. For example, the Chinese considered women with tiny feet incredibly sexy and would apply painfully tight binding to the feet of young girls to prevent further growth of their feet.

    Look up "African Lip Plugs". It was thought the original purpose of lip plugs may have been to deform women providing them protection against Arab slavers. However, David Livingstone inquired of an African chief, the reason for them and to his surprise, the chief answered; for beauty! They are the only beautiful things women have. Men have beards, women have none. What kind of person would she be without Pelele? She would not be a woman at all.

    Beauty standards in the 21st century worldwide generally favor hair for both men and women. Some women prefer bald men. I had a lady tell me she thinks bald men are more masculine and sexy than men with full heads of hair.

    35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
    www.forhair.com
    Cole Hair Transplant
    1045 Powers Place
    Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
    Phone 678-566-1011
    email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35YrsAfter View Post
    Are you suggesting that if a man or woman with a full head of hair were given the hormones and the level of those hormones that exist in the blood of a Norwood 6 or 7, they too would develop the classic horseshoe hair loss pattern?
    I know this isn't directed towards me but .. if they have the genes which makes scalp hair follicles sensitive to androgens then that is true. For example, women. They may have the genes for AGA but they don't lose hair because DHT levels are so low. But when some women change gender to male, they are given hormone injections; their DHT levels rise and then they start balding in a horseshoe pattern.

    I remember a post of Bryan talking about a study on stumptailed macaques. Hair follicles extracted from prepubertal macaques were not sensitive to added testosterone. Hair follicles extracted sometime after they hit puberty, the hair follicles were sensitive to added testosterone.

    Men who get castrated AFTER puberty stop balding but will carry on balding if they are given hormone injections. Whereas, if someone is castrated BEFORE puberty, he will never develop MPB even if he is given hormone injections when he is an adult.

    To me this suggests puberty triggers some sort of switch

  7. #27
    Doctor Representative 35YrsAfter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BudskiiHD View Post
    I remember a post of Bryan talking about a study on stumptailed macaques. Hair follicles extracted from prepubertal macaques were not sensitive to added testosterone. Hair follicles extracted sometime after they hit puberty, the hair follicles were sensitive to added testosterone.
    I wonder if researchers have taken the time to create a complete database of respected studies related to androgenic alopecia? Perhaps applying some creative thinking to the assembled missing pieces of this mystery puzzle will help in developing a stellar preventive strategy or even a cure.

    35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
    www.forhair.com
    Cole Hair Transplant
    1045 Powers Place
    Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
    Phone 678-566-1011
    email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com

  8. #28
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    Forums like this offer true, honest 'release' for some - but for most it offers nothing but sadness as the topic that distresses them is the only thing this forum is about.

    Truly depressed people will stick around too long and hurt themselves mentally further - especially because of all the negativity surrounding advancements. Those going through and getting over it may move on or stop by occasionally, maybe comment.

  9. #29
    Doctor Representative 35YrsAfter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotBelievingIt View Post
    Forums like this offer true, honest 'release' for some - but for most it offers nothing but sadness as the topic that distresses them is the only thing this forum is about.

    Truly depressed people will stick around too long and hurt themselves mentally further - especially because of all the negativity surrounding advancements. Those going through and getting over it may move on or stop by occasionally, maybe comment.
    The situation in 2013 is far less depressing than it was when I was 20. When I was twenty, there was no Rogaine and Propecia or Avodart were not available for the treatment of hair loss. When I was 20, very few men shaved their head, and those who did were considered odd. The only options available were unnatural plugs, a hair piece or classic baldness.

    Today there is a lot more hope and future treatments look promising. Check this out from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19438685

    Hair regeneration from transected follicles in duplicative surgery: rate of success and cell populations involved.
    Toscani M, Rotolo S, Ceccarelli S, Morrone S, Micali G, Scuderi N, Frati L, Angeloni A, Marchese C.
    Source

    Department of Skin-Venereal Disease and Reconstructive and Plastic Surgery, Sapienza University of Rome, Rome, Italy.
    Abstract
    BACKGROUND:

    The use of bisected hair follicles in hair transplantation has been previously reported, but the capacity of each half to regenerate the entire hair has not been clarified.
    OBJECTIVE:

    To evaluate duplicative surgery rate of success and to analyze the cell populations involved in hair regeneration.
    METHODS:

    We screened 28 patients undergoing duplicative surgery. Approximately 100 hair follicles from each patient were horizontally bisected and implanted. Upper and lower portions were stained for the known epithelial stem cell markers CD200, p63, beta1-integrin, CD34, and K19.
    RESULTS:

    Similar percentages of hair regrowth after 12 months were observed when implanting the upper (72.7 +/- 0.4&#37 and lower (69.2 +/- 1.1%) portions. Expression of CD200, p63, and beta1-integrin was detected in both portions, whereas K19 and CD34 stained different cell populations in the upper and lower fragment, respectively.
    CONCLUSION:

    Duplicative surgery might represent a successful alternative for hair transplantation, because both portions are capable of regenerating a healthy hair. Moreover, our results suggest the possible presence of stem cells in both halves of the follicle.

    ACell and PRP show promise:

    The following is a segment of a study we conducted at Dr. Cole's office related to getting improved follicle regeneration with ACell sealing ACell under our liquid bandage. The Blue circle is for reference, the green x is an extraction site that did not regrow a hair and the yellow circles indicate FUE sites that regenerated a follicle:


    35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
    www.forhair.com
    Cole Hair Transplant
    1045 Powers Place
    Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
    Phone 678-566-1011
    email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
    Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck
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    Last edited by 35YrsAfter; 08-30-2013 at 06:04 AM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member mpb47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35YrsAfter View Post
    If male pattern baldness weren't considered undesirable, it would be looked upon in a similar way as beard hair development in men. Cultures throughout history have found unusual things attractive or unattractive.

    That's pretty much what my biology teacher said years ago. That it was just another trait like beard growth. And the reason it was undesirable , was due to the fact that it happens to men at different times and to different degrees. If all men went bald at puberty, it would be considered normal.

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