Dr Cole-Dr Nigam to meet up!!

[Phatalis]

So you are not depressed now? I have a feeling you're a NW2, with minimal recession, so you're willing to tolerate it and think about sides.

How bad is your hair loss btw? Is it aggressive? The way I see it, if you have mild hairloss like yeahyeah, you can afford to be picky, but if you have a fast moving pattern, then you need to take risks to save your hair.

Assuming you have moderate to aggressive MPB:
Probability of going bald = 100%
Probability of maintaining hair with fin = 85%
Probability of losing hair on fin = 15%
Probability of sides = 5-6%
Probability of persistent sides = <5%

Statistically, I think the winner is obvious.

I mean you're probably right yeah.. my hairloss is worse cause I messed it up but im like a NW 2 - 2.5

its not that bad and yeah I can be picky for now. if I was in a worse situation and thank god im not I might be all on fin. so you're right.

I want to take it but im too scared. maybe itll change someday when Im hitting worse NW

I mean shit.. if I could just pop fin and be ok with maintaining.. I'd literally be ****ing a-ok right now. Fin would probably save all of my hair.

I consider giving it another go every now and then ...then I read stories... and it just seems.. too risky.

[KO1]

Then you may be just fine.

Feel free to experiment with things like RU or CB or w/e.

But if you're a guy who has significant loss ahead of him, I don't think you can be picky about sides, and I find it amusing when people complain about "watery semen". Really buddy?

[Phatalis]

Then you may be just fine.

Feel free to experiment with things like RU or CB or w/e.

But if you're a guy who has significant loss ahead of him, I don't think you can be picky about sides, and I find it amusing when people complain about "watery semen". Really buddy?

after reading about all the "future treatments" and theri current status... I probably will get on fin in the next year or two if my hair continues to go.

[yeahyeahyeah]

So should men stop taking the drug because your libido is lowered on finasteride? Should we ignore the vast literature that defends its safety? The sides you stated were pretty moderate, "libido, watery ejaculate" (did you have persistent ED? That is more severe, and you didn't state that), but I'll take your word for it.

It still does not change the safety profile of the drug. You may suffer from sides, but let's take my case, I've suffered plenty because I didn't take the drug earlier, and more importantly, the data backs my argument.

Fin worked for you and that's great, but again if you have persistent sides like chrisis has there is a lack of support. And that is the problem.

If it was a safe drug it will in addition to working have a good strong contingency plan if in the event it doesn't work - which it doesn't.

I also hate how you are downplaying his sides; when it's obviously bothering him enough to write about them. The worst thing is too, and this goes back to an earlier point. If he didnt carry the balding gene, he wouldn't have to experience them to begin with regardless of DHT level!

It's unfair like shit that we are having to play Russian roulette with our health.

[yeahyeahyeah]

Then you may be just fine.

Feel free to experiment with things like RU or CB or w/e.

But if you're a guy who has significant loss ahead of him, I don't think you can be picky about sides, and I find it amusing when people complain about "watery semen". Really buddy?

That's why it's not a safe drug. Nobody should get onto a drug and experience irreversible sides (of this nature) to begin with.

Merck are just capitalising on the insecurities of balding men. That's it.

[yeahyeahyeah]

That's why it's not a safe drug. Nobody should get onto a drug and experience irreversible sides (of this nature) to begin with.

Merck are just capitalising on the insecurities of balding men. That's it.

KO1 I suspect that you are getting sides but ignoring them due to thinking that they are minor.

[Alclops]

Then you may be just fine.

Feel free to experiment with things like RU or CB or w/e.

But if you're a guy who has significant loss ahead of him, I don't think you can be picky about sides, and I find it amusing when people complain about "watery semen". Really buddy?

I got serious side effects from taking Saw Palmetto, after the doctor told me there were NO known side effects. It completely killed my libido, entirely, plus other serious effects (seriously no joke, I have a thread detailing the effects of it, I still can't believe it). I am, still to this day, paranoid that I have not, and will not fully recover, especially when I have penis problems. This stress outweighs the stress of balding.

I think for many people who value their virility, 5% (if it really is that low) is simply too high of a risk, so to us it IS russian roulette, therefore, not a solution.

[clandestine]

Then you may be just fine.

Feel free to experiment with things like RU or CB or w/e.

But if you're a guy who has significant loss ahead of him, I don't think you can be picky about sides, and I find it amusing when people complain about "watery semen". Really buddy?

What about male breasts?

[clandestine]

I got serious side effects from taking Saw Palmetto, after the doctor told me there were NO known side effects. It completely killed my libido, entirely, plus other serious effects (seriously no joke, I have a thread detailing the effects of it, I still can't believe it). I am, still to this day, paranoid that I have not, and will not fully recover, especially when I have penis problems. This stress outweighs the stress of balding.

I think for many people who value their virility, 5% (if it really is that low) is simply too high of a risk, so to us it IS russian roulette, therefore, not a solution.

Strong agree.

I'm sorry this has happened to you.

[KO1]

That's why it's not a safe drug. Nobody should get onto a drug and experience irreversible sides (of this nature) to begin with.

Merck are just capitalising on the insecurities of balding men. That's it.

As has been stated multiple times, this thread is not for the discussion of finasteride, yet you continue bothering me with your stupidity. I find it great that Merck is capitalizing on the insecurity of bald men, I wish more drug companies did that, unfortunately, thanks to the fin hating brigade, drug companies will think twice about releasing MPB treatments.

It has nothing to do with "fin worked for me", and I do not get side effects from it, btw, I take 2 dutasteride pills a day - no sides. This dose is far more potent than 1mg fin, which in theory should give me sub-castrate levels of DHT. No ED, no lack of libido, no brain fog, no male breasts, energy levels are great, in fact, I'm lifting more than ever before. (fin and dut raise testosterone levels).

Finasteride is a safe drug because very few people get side effects, subsequently, the chance of getting them is LOW. Get that through your thick skull. Only a miniscule portion of people get these "irreversible effects". If you are uncomfortable with taking the drug, that is your right, but don't give us your verbal diarrhea, or spread stupidity or misinformation about its safety profile, or worse, discourage people from the drug.


As for breasts, again, very few get them, but hey....who needs facts when you can have shock value?

[Zao]

Well discuss it somewhere else! Not in the Cutting Edge/Future Treatments section, seeing as it is an outdated, potentially unsafe treatment!

Outdated treatment? It's the most effective hair loss treatment ever invented and works to some level for most men who take it with little or no side effects. Merck invented the first anti- baldness pill that actually works and yes there is a very slim chance of side effects, just like any other drug on the market, but when I read people saying stupid things like "Merck is just capitalizing on the insecurities of balding men" I have to laugh! Do you have any idea how many balding men have had great success with this drug? Millions, me included.

[Arashi]

Genitourinary side effects have included impotence (1.1% to 18.5%), abnormal ejaculation (7.2%), decreased ejaculatory volume (0.9% to 2.8%), abnormal sexual function (2.5%), gynecomastia (2.2%), erectile dysfunction (1.3%), ejaculation disorder (1.2%), and testicular pain
Nervous system side effects including decreased libido (1.6% to 10.0%), dizziness (7.4%), and somnolence (1.7%) have been reported.
Cardiovascular side effects including postural hypotension (9.1%) and hypotension (1.2%) have been reported.

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/propecia-side-effects.html

[Arashi]

But even if risk of the Post Fin Syndrome (http://www.pfsfoundation.org/) were only 0.1&#37;, I personally feel it's not worth the risk. But then again I'm maybe one of the lucky ones, balding at slow speed. I would never risk my life (and taking away my dick is taking away my life) to keep my hair. But to each their own.

[KO1]

Genitourinary side effects have included impotence (1.1&#37; to 18.5%)

So is it 1.1% or 18.5%? You may not realize it, but there's a big difference. LMAO.

This data you cite doesnt tell you what the population taking the drug was. Was the population those that suffer sides? Was it the total population taking the drug? Was it a double blind trial? Single blind? No blind? Random reporting? Nothing, just terrible citation.

If you feel 0.1% chance of PFS is bad, then don't take it, just don't discourage others from taking the drug.

We have a great drug for stopping and slowing down hair loss, but...I'm terrified of a 5% chance of reducing my libido! Even though the side effects will likely dissipate after stopping the drug! EBIL EBIL MERCK!

[Arashi]

So is it 1.1% or 18.5%? You may not realize it, but there's a big difference. LMAO.

This data you cite doesnt tell you what the population taking the drug was. Was the population those that suffer sides? Was it the total population taking the drug? Was it a double blind trial? Single blind? No blind? Random reporting? Nothing, just terrible citation.

If you feel 0.1% chance of PFS is bad, then don't take it, just don't discourage others from taking the drug.

We have a great drug for stopping and slowing down hair loss, but...I'm terrified of a 5% chance of reducing my libido! Even though the side effects will likely dissipate after stopping the drug! EBIL EBIL MERCK!

If you feel the importance of keeping your hair outweighs the risks of (persisting) side effects, you should take the drug, the others shouldn't. Simple as that