HST reply - claims of 6-8 HSTs

[greatjob!]

So they've done several clients who've had more than 6-8 HST treatments, but not a single photo, video, patient testimony, to share with anyone?
Is that the story that is being given a pass around here?

This is what I would like to know. If there are patients that have had 6-8 hst treatments then at somewhere around 1500 grafts per procedure it puts them up around the 10,000 graft mark. 10,000 grafts is very rarely possible with traditional HT's, and would easily restore a high norwood level to a full head of hair. However I have yet to see a single example of this kind of transformation coming from them. Every clinic posts there absolute best cases on their websites, so why are all the pics from hasci mediocre. If they want to prove their procedure beyond a doubt all they have to do is post before and after pics of all these patients that have received 6-8 treatments. You show me someone with 10,000+ grafts and good results in the recipient and the argument is over, period. The fact that they won't do this makes me think they are full of it. The saying pics or it didn't happen comes to mind.

[ryan555]

This is what I would like to know. If there are patients that have had 6-8 hst treatments then at somewhere around 1500 grafts per procedure it puts them up around the 10,000 graft mark. 10,000 grafts is very rarely possible with traditional HT's, and would easily restore a high norwood level to a full head of hair. However I have yet to see a single example of this kind of transformation coming from them. Every clinic posts there absolute best cases on their websites, so why are all the pics from hasci mediocre. If they want to prove their procedure beyond a doubt all they have to do is post before and after pics of all these patients that have received 6-8 treatments. You show me someone with 10,000+ grafts and good results in the recipient and the argument is over, period. The fact that they won't do this makes me think they are full of it. The saying pics or it didn't happen comes to mind.

Clinics routinely achieve 10,000 graft results with FUT, albeit usually resulting in depletion of donor hair. 10,000 grafts is not enough to restore a high Norwood to a full head of hair. A Norwood 6 or 7 would likely have lost 60 - 70,000 hairs, so adding 20,000 back is not going to achieve a dense result. When they are able to do 20,000 grafts without noticeable donor depletion, then we have something to get excited about.

[greatjob!]

Clinics routinely achieve 10,000 graft results with FUT, albeit usually resulting in depletion of donor hair. 10,000 grafts is not enough to restore a high Norwood to a full head of hair. A Norwood 6 or 7 would likely have lost 60 - 70,000 hairs, so adding 20,000 back is not going to achieve a dense result. When they are able to do 20,000 grafts without noticeable donor depletion, then we have something to get excited about.

Routinely? Go find 10 results of patients who have received 10,000+ grafts, also remember I said grafts not hair. Hasson & Wong are the kings of high graft counts and I have only ever seen one patient from them break the 10,000 mark. Very few people have 10,000 grafts in there donor for a strip hair transplant and almost no one has 10,000 grafts available via FUE. So if hst can extract 10,000 grafts from a good amount of patients it proves they are achieving a high regeneration rate, because almost no one has 10,000 grafts available for transplant via FUE. I understand that no technique currently available can restore natural density, but 10,000 grafts on a bald person with say 200 cm to cover can restore to a average density of 50 grafts/cm2. That person would look as if they never lost any hair, so while it is not natural density, the ability to move 10,000+ grafts is essentially a cure.

My point here is they claim of 85% regeneration and they have had patients receive 10,000 grafts from hst why don't they show these result because it would end the debate as it is impossible to extract 10,000 grafts via FUE without a high rate of regeneration. It doesn't make sense why a business would not display there best results. They say we have many patients that have had 6-8 procedures done, but the only pictures they display are people who have received less than 3,000 grafts. Lets see someone who has received 8 hst treatments and over 10,000+ grafts and looks good and I will bow down to Dr. Gho and will give him all my money.

[ryan555]

Routinely? Go find 10 results of patients who have received 10,000+ grafts, also remember I said grafts not hair. Hasson & Wong are the kings of high graft counts and I have only ever seen one patient from them break the 10,000 mark. Very few people have 10,000 grafts in there donor for a strip hair transplant and almost no one has 10,000 grafts available via FUE. So if hst can extract 10,000 grafts from a good amount of patients it proves they are achieving a high regeneration rate, because almost no one has 10,000 grafts available for transplant via FUE. I understand that no technique currently available can restore natural density, but 10,000 grafts on a bald person with say 200 cm to cover can restore to a average density of 50 grafts/cm2. That person would look as if they never lost any hair, so while it is not natural density, the ability to move 10,000+ grafts is essentially a cure.

My point here is they claim of 85% regeneration and they have had patients receive 10,000 grafts from hst why don't they show these result because it would end the debate as it is impossible to extract 10,000 grafts via FUE without a high rate of regeneration. It doesn't make sense why a business would not display there best results. They say we have many patients that have had 6-8 procedures done, but the only pictures they display are people who have received less than 3,000 grafts. Lets see someone who has received 8 hst treatments and over 10,000+ grafts and looks good and I will bow down to Dr. Gho and will give him all my money.

I'm sure you're correct that it is not common for a patient to get 10k grafts, but I've been told by very prestigious surgeons that 8,000 would be "typical" for an average patient and that another 2,000 could generally be taken via fue for a total of 10,000 grafts. Most patients may not opt to get that many but it would be possible in a lot of cases. And it sounds like it is an atypical result for HST as well. I still don't get why 10,000 is a big deal nor why they would need to stop there if they are getting 85% donor regeneration. Are they unable to reuse regenerated grafts in future procedures? The numbers just don't seem to add up.

[greatjob!]

I'm sure you're correct that it is not common for a patient to get 10k grafts, but I've been told by very prestigious surgeons that 8,000 would be "typical" for an average patient and that another 2,000 could generally be taken via fue for a total of 10,000 grafts. Most patients may not opt to get that many but it would be possible in a lot of cases. And it sounds like it is an atypical result for HST as well. I still don't get why 10,000 is a big deal nor why they would need to stop there if they are getting 85% donor regeneration. Are they unable to reuse regenerated grafts in future procedures? The numbers just don't seem to add up.

Yeah that all sounds correct. I'm just throwing out big numbers. The real point I'm getting at is that until I see hst achieving numbers that are not possible using traditional fue I am not convinced they are getting the regeneration they are claiming that's all.

[Skywalker]

...but I've been told by very prestigious surgeons that 8,000 would be "typical" for an average patient and that another 2,000 could generally be taken via fue for a total of 10,000 grafts. Most patients may not opt to get that many but it would be possible in a lot of cases.

I assume we are talking NW6 ? Otherwise you don't need so many do you ?

They may have told you 10,000 on average but I think that is commonly known as Bullshit - and I think the proof of the pudding is that the results are just not there.

The problem with NW6 guys is that their donor density is often somewhat compromised as well.

[KO1]

I agree with didi, the major HT clinics have put out 5k plus graft cases on slick bald patients, that look far better than Dean Saunders. After all this talk about stem cells and multiplication, all we have is a guy with a very high hairline and specks on top of his scalp.

I have yet to see any Gho patients show any transformation that matches Hasson&Wong, Lorenzo or Erdogan's cases.

[KO1]

.

[ryan555]

I assume we are talking NW6 ? Otherwise you don't need so many do you ?

They may have told you 10,000 on average but I think that is commonly known as Bullshit - and I think the proof of the pudding is that the results are just not there.

The problem with NW6 guys is that their donor density is often somewhat compromised as well.

Well bullshit or not, 10,000 grafts from someone claiming 85% donor regeneration is not impressive in the least, unless it were done on a slick Norwood 7 with very low donor density.

[cocacola]

Can u please show those 5000 graft results