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  1. #11
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
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    Or, since the average HST probably is around 1600 grafts, then 2000 FUE would equal not 5 but more than 6 HST's !!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc83uk View Post

    This is getting out of control.
    That's right - like "The Ironman Procedure" thread (among others); just because 1 idiot is COMPLETELY unable to ask the proper questions and to understand the proper answers (everything in his native language, of course). I mean, besides being COMPLETELY unable to find answers himself.

    Btw "The Ironman Procedure" thread:
    HOW MANY procedures "advised" HSCI me IN BLACK AND WHITE?

    http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/...n-iron-man.jpg

    Right - 5 - all in all, to cover-up adequate all bald areas and five procedures would mean in my case around 7000 grafts just out of the real "safety zone" as they did it in the 1st procedure!

    Yeah, and 5 procedures doesn't mean "end of story", because advised 5 procedures just means to cover-up adequate all my bald areas.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
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    I asked why Dean Saunders only got 3 HST's. Kristel said that's what they advice clients who want to be able to shave their heads, cause after 3 HST's the donor is starting to look worse. I then asked for more details. Never got them. So, enlighten us, what was the wrong question and what part didn't I understand ?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
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    And let's discuss this like adults, IM, no need to swear and insult each other.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi View Post
    Or, since the average HST probably is around 1600 grafts, then 2000 FUE would equal not 5 but more than 6 HST's !!
    In fact, since it seems HASCI has difficulties doing 3 hair grafts, the ratio is even different. With normal FUE, the average will be 2 hairs/graft if 1's 2's and 3's are evenly distributed. With HASCI it will be close to 1.5. Which means that 2000 FUE grafts would lose 4000 hairs and 2000 HST grafts 3000 in donor. If you take that also into consideration, then at 80% regrowth, 2000 FUE grafts should yield the same donor loss as about 9 HST's !! But instead HASCI advices clients to stop after 3 HST's. Something isn't right here IM, and you know it too.

  6. #16
    Senior Member didi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi View Post
    In fact, since it seems HASCI has difficulties doing 3 hair grafts, the ratio is even different. With normal FUE, the average will be 2 hairs/graft if 1's 2's and 3's are evenly distributed. With HASCI it will be close to 1.5. Which means that 2000 FUE grafts would lose 4000 hairs and 2000 HST grafts 3000 in donor. If you take that also into consideration, then at 80% regrowth, 2000 FUE grafts should yield the same donor loss as about 9 HST's !! But instead HASCI advices clients to stop after 3 HST's. Something isn't right here IM, and you know it too.

    good point,
    what arash is saying is 2000 fue will damage donor much more than 2000 hst grafts would, simply bc hst does not extracts 3s..

    that means at 80% regeneration, donor area after 10 000 hst grafts should look like 1 500 FUE grafts minus white dots.....In another words everyone should be able to get 10 000 grafts .

  7. #17
    Senior Member Pentarou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stayhopeful View Post
    other than $$...?
    Not enough evidence that the hair stem cell transplant procedure works as advertised, basically.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
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    To clarify:

    1x 2000 FUE, average 2 hairs/graft (if 1's 2's and 3's are evenly distributed), so you'll lose 4000 hairs in donor.
    9x1600 HST= 14.400 graftsx 1.5 hair per graft = 21.600 of which you'll lose 20% in donor, so you'll lose 4320 hairs in donor.

    So only 320 hairs more lost in donor, BUT I'm assuming an average of 2 hairs/graft for FUE, while I think that the average with a FUE is even slighly higher. So it's save to assume that at 80% regrowth, 1 FUE of 2000 hairs, should equal 9 times a 1600 HST. But instead HASCI advices clients to stop after 3 HST's. Something isn't right here ...

  9. #19
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    Would anyone actually need 14,400 grafts? I think 12,000 even for an NW7 would be enough.

    I sent Hasci an email earlier today, not had a reply yet, but I'm expecting a reply tomorrow, otherwise I'll be re-sending it. I decided to take a different angle on this 3 HST question, at least to start with....

    I've basically asked her how many more grafts that I can have extracted? She has my donor photos, so she should be able to give me an approximate figure.

    If she says I can only have another 3000 grafts (6000 total) then I will be asking why!

    20% of 6000 grafts is only 1200 graft loss, which shouldn't be that big a deal with most donors, HOWEVER my donor was shit to start with, so probably not the best example to be using. I personally believe I should be able to get to around 2000 graft loss before I get to the point of being unable to shave my head without noticing gaps too seriously. I don't mind a few hairless gaps here and there!

    Worst case scenario, come this September, I'll make sure to photograph every ****ing FU in my donor area 2 or 3 nights before the procedure... I'll upload the photos for TBT users to analyse BEFORE I do my procedure...

    Because I'm having the procedure over 2 days again, it should be relatively easier to photograph the area each night and find each and every extraction point, we can even count each bloody site to make sure we get 700 each day, total of 1400. This should be easier.

    I don't mean to blow my own trumpet here, but I know how to take photographs in the way required to make the analysis irrefutable.

    The only tricky point will be analysing the new grafts placed in the recipient.
    I think this is less important at the moment, we still have too make questions on the donor regeneration and anyway most of us (IronMan aside) seem to accept the avg hairs per FU in the recipient is approx 1.5

    Perhaps that figure of 1.5 will increase as the hairs will mature, but I seriously doubt it will ever reach 2 per FU AVG.

    On a final note, I'm doing this for you guys, not myself. I have no choice other than Hasci, so I'm going regardless. Even if the AVG hair in my scalp was 1 FU I'd still go. Main reason is it's the least invasive form of hair transplant, FACT. I can't afford to have a full on FUE / FUT procedure, I believe I have a higher chance of flaring up my Lichen Planopilarus (Sp?) with more invasive forms of surgery, but that's another story!

    So I don't really have a choice at the moment.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Arashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc83uk View Post
    Would anyone actually need 14,400 grafts? I think 12,000 even for an NW7 would be enough.
    Exactly !! So on the one hand they claim they've cured hairloss (80% regen equals cure), but on the other hand they advise you to not go over 5k grafts !??! Makes no sense at all.

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