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  1. #1
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    Default SARMs. Will they cause hair loss?

    I'm making this topic primarily for WarLord. I can't write on his wall and I have no other way of talking to him. WarLord, if you're reading this, can you please tell me what you know? You said they destroyed your life, didn't you? What happened? I'm interested in trying S4 now that I have a source.

    If any of you other guys know about them, please feel free to school me. It would be greatly appreciated.

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    i v heard of stories loosing eye sight and cant drive at night, stay away

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    Quote Originally Posted by TO YOUNG TO RETIRE View Post
    i v heard of stories loosing eye sight and cant drive at night, stay away
    Are you talking permanent loss of eye sight? I'll endure anything as long as it is temporary/reversible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aames View Post
    Are you talking permanent loss of eye sight? I'll endure anything as long as it is temporary/reversible.
    I'm not so sure you should mess around with your eyes, in my opinion messing with your eyes in exchange for quick muscle growth is a trade off I wouldn't be willing to make.
    Check out this video on youtube, I usually go to this guys channel when I have training questions, he gives his account on his personal experience of steroid use, I enjoy his videos because he's a very level headed logical thinking guy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHOm89QUchk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayman View Post
    I'm not so sure you should mess around with your eyes, in my opinion messing with your eyes in exchange for quick muscle growth is a trade off I wouldn't be willing to make.
    Check out this video on youtube, I usually go to this guys channel when I have training questions, he gives his account on his personal experience of steroid use, I enjoy his videos because he's a very level headed logical thinking guy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHOm89QUchk
    Thanks for the link, brah. I agree with you but if the eyesight troubles don't persist after discontinuing use, I wouldn't be too worried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aames View Post
    Thanks for the link, brah. I agree with you but if the eyesight troubles don't persist after discontinuing use, I wouldn't be too worried.
    I think in this case both the poster and the man in the link that was sent to YouTube are genuine in their concern for people and also their belief in what they say. But this is the case of one man using self anecdotal evidence a d extrapolating it into an indisputable cause and effect. To show how this works I could turn the argument into stating that poor eye sight leads to increased SARMs use.

    Basically just because Events A and B happen together does not mean A and B have any connection to each other. What is a well known fact is that no matter what you do in life some people have flawed eyesight that will continue to get worse as time progresses. It's also an accepted fact that everyone will lose the ability to read without the aid of glasses as a natural and irreversible part of the aging process (if someone doesn't lose some eyesight with age than they contain a genetic mutation which in this case might seem to be an advantage where most genetic mutations cause more harm than good). So unless you read it in a medical journal and the article read has been heavily cited (which is the most relevant way to determine if there is a consensus in that field of experts) than I would approach a claim with a lot of skepticism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TO YOUNG TO RETIRE View Post
    i v heard of stories loosing eye sight and cant drive at night, stay away
    Where have you heard these stories? It's a dubious claim to make the following argument. Here is the formula "I've heard" + "add in claim" = truth (when it doesn't really count as even anecdotal evidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aames View Post
    I'm making this topic primarily for WarLord. I can't write on his wall and I have no other way of talking to him. WarLord, if you're reading this, can you please tell me what you know? You said they destroyed your life, didn't you? What happened? I'm interested in trying S4 now that I have a source.

    If any of you other guys know about them, please feel free to school me. It would be greatly appreciated.
    Well, I must illuminate it a bit: First of all, I think that SARMs are not as revolutionary as some people think. They are basically comparable with the mildest steroids like oxandrolone and nandrolone. To sum up my experience:

    S4 (Andarine): Can be used primarily for strength endurance (incredible!), less for strength. Usually, the effective dosage is around 50 mg/day. The only side effect that I am aware of is the worsened night vision. It can be annoying, but it is not dangerous.

    Ostarine: Is used for strength at lower doses than S4, usually 15-25 mg/day or so. But personally, I noticed that this drug is pretty hepatotoxic. My liver enzymes were always through the roof. And I was taking only 10-15 mg/day! Certainly, this is not a drug that I would like, although one of its positive effects is high libido. The strength increase was not much impressive either, at least at the doses I was taking. (And I was combining it with S4).

    An interesting thing is that taking SARMs (Ostarine and S4 together) with finasteride and minoxidil probably initiated a sudden hair regrowth in me (in August 2012). I really have no other explanation: I added finasteride to my minoxidil regime in late June 2012, hoping that I would achieve some regrowth in temples. At the beginning of July, I started to use SARMs, and one month later, I was already experiencing a very promising regrowth. But when I stopped using SARMs (in late August 2012), the regrowth quickly stopped. What is worse, two months later (in late October 2012), I started to suffer from incessant shedding in my temples. At first I thought that it was only a temporary "finasteride shed", but it seems that it wasn't, because the lost hair still hasn't regrown back. In other words, my hair loss began to exacerbate after long 17 years again - and I can tell you that the last winter was the worst period of my life. My thoughts were sometimes borderline suicidal.

    I suspect that the quitting of SARMs must have caused some negative reaction in my body. Perhaps, my androgen receptors were upregulated. I don't know. It's really mindboggling, because before this incident, I was using minoxidil alone successfully for 16,5 years, and I was not experiencing any problems even on relatively harsh steroids like stanozolol. But suddenly, I couldn't stop my hair loss with minoxidil+finasteride!!! Fortunately, I lost patience very early and I jumped on dutasteride - which works excellently!

    With regard to this mysterious renewal of my hairloss, I will never touch SARMs again.

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    Thanks for posting your experience, WarLord. I'm sorry to hear your misfortune. I'm glad that you have halted your loss again with duta. By the sounds of it, I should probably stay away. I just hate being natty, brah. It will be years before I have a decent physique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aames View Post
    Thanks for posting your experience, WarLord. I'm sorry to hear your misfortune. I'm glad that you have halted your loss again with duta. By the sounds of it, I should probably stay away. I just hate being natty, brah. It will be years before I have a decent physique.
    I wouldn't want to discourage you from SARMs. But that what I said had really happened, although in theory it shouldn't be possible, and it remains a big unexplained mystery for me.

    In any case, the primary reason of this winter shed was a relatively high DHT level in my body: 25-32 ng/dl. This is low, when viewed in the context of the normal DHT range in adult men (30-85 ng/dl), but about twice higher than in men on finasteride. Unfortunately, I don't know my initial DHT levels before the start of finasteride. I would say that finasteride must have lowered it, but apparently not too effectively. It basically did nothing.

    It is known that SARMs bind competetively to androgen receptors and work as antagonists of DHT. Hence they decrease androgenic activity in the body. This is one of their most beneficial effects in comparison with traditionally used steroids. I saw studies done in lab rats, where Ostarine and S4 decreased prostate weight approximately by 20%, which is roughly one half of the effect seen in finasteride. Another SARMs, S1, even surpassed finasteride in this regard, but it is a very weak anabolic.

    With regard to the weaker effect of Ostarine and S4 on prostate weight, I supposed that they would compromise the efficiacy of finasteride, but it seems that the opposite was true, probably because they work by different mechanisms. My testosterone levels in late July were actually only 50 ng/dl (roughly 10% of the normal level), so DHT must have been very low as well and finasteride must have suppressed these residual DHT levels by more than 50%. In short, I had very low testosterone levels and virtually zero DHT, and those slightly androgenic SARMs occupied my androgen receptors. This may explain the sudden explosive regrowth along my hairline. But what happened after quitting SARMs... That's utterly baffling for me...

    One could understand that the benefits of this fin+SARMs combo would disappear, but why should my hairloss exacerbate after 16+ years again? Why should it suddenly turn by 180 degrees, within mere 2 months?! It's simply perplexing. And consider that I was taking SARMs (S4) even before, as a sort of PCT after steroid cycles, but I have never experienced any problems. Perhaps, my androgen receptors were really upregulated during the use of fin+SARMs, and when I quitted SARMs, they were shocked by the rapid increase of DHT. In any case, as I said, this wouldn't happen, if fin did its job well. Obviously, it did virtually nothing. So you could avoid this unpleasant experience very easily, by sufficiently high doses of dut. But it depends entirely on you, if you want to undertake this risk.

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