Dr. Cotsarelis vs. Dr. Gho: The BIG question…

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  • 534623
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2011
    • 1865

    Dr. Cotsarelis vs. Dr. Gho: The BIG question…

    There is –as always- a complete ridiculous discussion going on at HS around Dr. Gho, Dr. Cotsarelis and another guy, whose name is not even worth to mention, and about hair follicle stem cell findings.

    Anyway, as most guys know, Dr. Cotsarelis (et al) published in 2011 “brand new” research findings …



    …with the research article title:

    “Bald scalp in men with androgenetic alopecia

    - retains hair follicle stem cells
    - but lacks CD200-rich and CD34-positive hair follicle progenitor cells”


    That means, Dr. Cotsarelis (et al) found out, that scalp of even slick bald guys still retains hair follicle stem cells and that scalp, undergoing AGA, just lacks hair follicle (HF) progenitor cells, as CD34+ progenitor cells, for example - that’s exactly what Dr. Cotsarelis found out and published in 2011 – right?

    So according to Dr. Cotsarelis’ research findings, these findings almost “suggest” the following idea:

    1) isolation of these lacking progenitor HF cells from the not AGA affected donor area (occiput area = “donor dominance”) with proper and harmless techniques like simply plucking out HAIRS in anagen phase (with still attached HF stem cells) from the donor area;

    2) multiplying these isolated hair follicle cells in the lab to get, of course, more of them (aka in vitro “hair multiplication”);

    3) injection of the multiplied HF progenitor cells (CD34+ for example) straight into the already AGA affected and miniaturized hair follicles in the balding recipient/front area.

    Whether this works or not – it doesn’t matter; simply doing it would be at least worth a try – wouldn’t it?

    Anyway, and that (step 1-3) is exactly what Dr. Gho tried to accomplish since the mid 90’s …



    … and finally filed a patent around this method in 1997 ...



    ... around 15 years prior (!) to Dr. Cotsarelis’ publication.

    And finally, if you google “TO MULTIPLY OR NOT TO MULTIPLY, THAT IS THE QUESTION…” – Dr. Gho presented and revealed his work and research findings in 2003 at the ISHRS meeting in New York.

    And now the real good and BIG question:

    Dr. Gho targeted and mentioned in his patent (link above) exactly the by Dr. Cotsarelis mentioned and in bald scalps lacking hair follicle progenitor cells, like CD34+ cells.

    In the mid 90s, around 15 years prior (!) to Dr. Cotsarelis’ findings, HOW, the f….. hell, could Dr. Gho know that AGA affected scalp (more accurate miniaturized hair follicles) just lack progenitor cells, like CD34+ which he finally tried “to compensate” in AGA follicles by "simply" multiplying and finally injecting them??

    That is THE question …

    As for myself, I have only one explanation:



    Dr. Gho is simply the best!
  • HARIRI
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2012
    • 469

    #2
    Good thread 534623, So the big media thing about Dr. Cotsarelis findings were already been discovered by Dr. Gho 15 years ago. Impressive really, Dr. Gho should mention this to the media. I wonder when will he open a clinic in Asia.

    Comment

    • aim4hair
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2011
      • 437

      #3
      Originally posted by HARIRI
      Good thread 534623, So the big media thing about Dr. Cotsarelis findings were already been discovered by Dr. Gho 15 years ago. Impressive really, Dr. Gho should mention this to the media. I wonder when will he open a clinic in Asia.
      He already opened a clinic in Indonesia..

      Comment

      • Boldy
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2013
        • 287

        #4
        Originally posted by 534623

        That is THE question …

        As for myself, I have only one explanation:



        Dr. Gho is simply the best!
        You seriously should get paid by your friend Gho


        now Ontopic: I have to agree, I like his way in this hairloss field and He is a very smart man , just unfortunate he can't preform his experments in our country (the Netherlands) due to regulatory issues.
        I guess there is also no hesitation From his side to market this, since his HT clinics are overbooked for the next year already..
        Its all about (€€€€ & $$$$).


        Its a shame.

        Comment

        • oppenheimer82
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2013
          • 118

          #5
          wasn't cotsarelis writing about this as early as 1990?

          Comment

          • oppenheimer82
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2013
            • 118

            #6
            Originally posted by Boldy
            You seriously should get paid by your friend Gho


            now Ontopic: I have to agree, He is a very smart man , just unfortunate he can't preform his experments in our country (the Netherlands) due to regulatory issues.
            I guess there is also no hesitation for him, since his HT clinics are booked for the next 6 months already.


            Its a shame.
            it doesn't really matter boldy, i think dr nigam can do an even better job, because he is in india, the land of opportunity.

            Comment

            • HARIRI
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2012
              • 469

              #7
              I think since Dr. Gho has already a clinic in Indonesia, He should start his experiments there instead of bothering himself with Netherlands regulatory issues. Indonesia is flexible as India I believe so.

              Comment

              • oppenheimer82
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2013
                • 118

                #8
                Originally posted by HARIRI
                I think since Dr. Gho has already a clinic in Indonesia, He should start his experiments there instead of bothering himself with Netherlands regulatory issues. Indonesia is flexible as India I believe so.
                you are clearly missing the point here. dr gho's isn't interested in experimenting, he just sits on his patent, because it feels so nice and soft.

                Comment

                • 534623
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2011
                  • 1865

                  #9
                  Originally posted by oppenheimer82

                  you are clearly missing the point here. dr gho's isn't interested in experimenting, he just sits on his patent, because it feels so nice and soft.
                  You're wrong - the 1997 patent, isn't Dr. Gho's patent anymore, since his first company (GHO Holding B.V.) went bankrupt in 2004. Sure, he is still the INVENTOR of this method, and will always be the INVENTOR of this method - but he is not the owner of this patent anymore.

                  Interestingly enough, the new owners of this patent (since around 2004), went recently bankrupt again ...

                  Comment

                  • oppenheimer82
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2013
                    • 118

                    #10
                    Originally posted by 534623
                    You're wrong - the 1997 patent, isn't Dr. Gho's patent anymore, since his first company (GHO Holding B.V.) went bankrupt in 2004. Sure, he is still the INVENTOR of this method, and will always be the INVENTOR of this method - but he is not the owner of this patent anymore.

                    Interestingly enough, the new owners of this patent (since around 2004), went recently bankrupt again ...

                    http://www.z24.nl/faillissementen/ar...olding_Bv.html
                    wow, even worse. he did absolutely nothing with it. dr gho is a smart man, i respect him, he is my compatriot. but his method is still not significantly better than a random fue procedure. just look at gerard joling, wesley sneijder and dean saunders. if they would have gone to istanbul to do a random fue procedure by dr kardes, their results would have been exactly the same. so he is not the all end of everything.

                    Comment

                    • Boldy
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2013
                      • 287

                      #11
                      btw Ironman,

                      Gho deserves as much credits as all others like coteseralis, jahoda, nigams etc.

                      they all have 1 thing in common: they don't accept the curent oldschool fue techniques and look for better approaches to bring us closer to the cure. all the efforts and findings together, will lead into a marketable cure one day.

                      So I So I think its naive to say this or that person is the best.

                      Comment

                      • 534623
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2011
                        • 1865

                        #12
                        Originally posted by oppenheimer82
                        wow, even worse. he did absolutely nothing with it. dr gho is a smart man, i respect him, he is my compatriot. but his method is still not significantly better than a random fue procedure. just look at gerard joling, wesley sneijder and dean saunders. if they would have gone to istanbul to do a random fue procedure by dr kardes, their results would have been exactly the same. so he is not the all end of everything.
                        Yeah, but there is big problem within your endless wisdom:

                        All your mentioned guys have still OPTIONS reserved in their donor areas, if they want or simply need even more hair.

                        This guy, for example ...


                        ... went twice to a hair transplant clinic in Turkey - before he went to Dr. Gho's clinic recently.

                        Anyway, do you think that this guy has still "options" in his donor area reserved due to his normal FUE procedures?

                        Comment

                        • HARIRI
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2012
                          • 469

                          #13
                          DAMN!!! How could this happen? This is a brutal motorized FUE work. Actually I agree with you, most of Turkish FUE doctors are using Motorized Devices which leads to big FUE dots. There are very few great FUE doctors who use manual small punches like Dr. Koray Erdogan for example. By the way, which doctor in Turkey is he? Please post or PM me.

                          Comment

                          • 534623
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2011
                            • 1865

                            #14
                            Originally posted by HARIRI
                            DAMN!!! How could this happen? This is a brutal motorized FUE work. Actually I agree with you, most of Turkish FUE doctors are using Motorized Devices which leads to big FUE dots. There are very few great FUE doctors who use manual small punches like Dr. Koray Erdogan for example. By the way, which doctor in Turkey is he? Please post or PM me.
                            Instead of, I recommend you the following:

                            Try to contact all those guys on the BTT forums, who recently (during the past 24 month or so) underwent FUE procedures with these so-called "top FUE docs" around the globe. Tell them, they should shave down their donor areas to the bone, then they should take donor area photos of the FUE work they had (high quality photos not even necessary) and then they should finally load them up here - and THEN we will see whether or not it makes huge difference between any motorized extraction tools or any normal FUE punches.

                            I can almost guarantee you, that all these guys will NOT do this, nor any FUE clinic out there.

                            Contrary to them, for myself, as a HST patient, I can't even wait until I can shave down my head again in around 6 month or so, ready for my 2nd HST procedure - of course including uploading of these photos for analyses etc. Doing this, I will not have any problems with that even after 4-5 HST procedures!

                            Comment

                            • oppenheimer82
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2013
                              • 118

                              #15
                              Originally posted by 534623
                              Yeah, but there is big problem within your endless wisdom:

                              All your mentioned guys have still OPTIONS reserved in their donor areas, if they want or simply need even more hair.

                              This guy, for example ...


                              ... went twice to a hair transplant clinic in Turkey - before he went to Dr. Gho's clinic recently.

                              Anyway, do you think that this guy has still "options" in his donor area reserved due to his normal FUE procedures?
                              well, obviously you picked the most extreme case on this planet, but holy hell, i feel sorry for this man.

                              Comment

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