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  1. #11
    Senior Member gillenator's Avatar
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    ukcali,

    What I meant by dense packing BH was using only BH for the donor, and no scalp donor with it.

    Sure, the blend of roughly 25% BH with scalp donor is a better ratio and approach because even if the yield from the BH is poor, you should still see gains and coverage from the scalp donor.

    One of the drawbacks is distinguishing which regrown hairs were from scalp donor and which are from the body. Obviously with blending approximately 25% of the grafts coming from the body and 75% from the scalp, identifying the regrown BH will be very difficult.

    Some docs use tattoo ink dots to define and mark a small specific recipient area in which only BH grafts would be placed to measure yield and monitor growth periods but do not blend any scalp grafts with it. And the idea is not to dense pack that small area. It is done to measure yield from the BH grafts.

    And if you have that much BH, it's certainly worth trying it but try to stay with the more promising donor areas like the chest or beard.

    Best wishes to you in your journey my friend.
    "Gillenator"
    Independent Patient Advocate
    more.hair@verizon.net

    NOTE: I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice nor are they the opinions of the following endorsing physicians: Dr. Bob True & Dr. Bob Dorin

  2. #12
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    Oh goodness, here we go again with body hair.

    Around the turn of this century body hair hit the chart. Let me briefly review the history and results.

    In 2002, Ray Woods had reported on successful body hair transplants. By 2003 I was moving hair from the chest, abdomen, back, under arms, pubic area and legs. My first few cases were enormous successes. Then trouble hit. Some results were not so good. Then i began to study variables to achieve success with BHT (body hair transplants). Anagen hairs grow better than telogen hairs, but telogen hairs grow. Dense packing with BHT results in less growth. Optimal densities with BHT of less than 36 grafts per sq cm produce a better survival rate. Dense packing a combination of BHT and scalp hair can impair the survival rate of BOTH. Don't do it.

    With BHT about 25% of the cases result in noticeable hair growth. The rest get cosmetically insignificant growth. BHT can result in a rescue for those with scars and larger grafts, but it may not. Then again, good yields can sometimes fade over time especially with leg hair so be prepared for this.

    Head hair is king. The next best is beard. We began moving beard hair around 2007. The first thing we noted was how fast beard hair extractions healed. The second was how high the yield was on a consistent basis (about 60%). Then we noted that beard hair produce a better cosmetic result than a higher number of other sources of body hair. Beard is second best.

    What is the problem with beard hair? It is very coarse and curly, wavy, kinky. Some don't like it.

    Here is what i recommend. Do a trial of bear and see how you like the healing and the growth. if you don't like it, try something else. Here is the other problem with other sources. White dots or hypopigmentation. At least 50% of chest and abdomen harvests get white dots. White dots are very uncommon on the legs and more common on the back, though not anything near as common as chest and abdomen. Pubic and axilla hair area hard to harvest.

    Like I said hair is king. Use it fist. when you run dry or if you have very bad scarring due to strips of scalp reductions, or flaps, you may need to try BHT. Do a small session of 500 grafts and see how you respond. if the response is good, do more. If not, stop. If you like the appearance, do more. If not, stop.

    That's the summary. I can expound if you like as I've done in the millions of body hair grafts. I am the prevailing expert on BHT as i'm the guy they ask to speak about BHT or write the chapter on BHT. A summary is adequate simply because they work in some and if they work you are happy. In some they simply don't work. Beard is the exception as it consistently grows, but you may not like the appearance of the grafts.

    The one caveat I have not mentioned is that BHT seems to grow better with Acell and PRP.

  3. #13
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    I have found through my own observations and experiences that my beard and body hair procedure healed and grew much faster using superior nutrition when compared to what I have seen with Acell and PRP. My knowledge in the area of nutrition I would be very comfortable in saying is vastly superior when compared to most doctors so I don’t necessarily fault the medical profession as in most cases they only know what they have been taught and rarely question it so it sometimes makes them very limited.

    So far I am very pleased with my own result and it has made all the difference.

  4. #14
    Doctor Representative 35YrsAfter's Avatar
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    In my opinion, more and more people are waking up to the reality of the importance of good nutrition. Several years ago, I had high blood pressure, actinic keratosis, venous reflux, and severe neck pain. These health issues disappeared after I changed my diet. I credit my wife for modifying my family's eating habits. We now eat only organic fruits and vegetables, grass-fed beef from a reputable farm, drink non-fluoridated water and avoid GMO like the plague just to name a few changes we've made. That said, I have personally witnessed benefits from PRP and ACell while working at Dr. Cole's.

    -35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office

  5. #15
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    Yes 35 years I’m sure you have seen but I have not. I have only heard about it for several years now. Presenting substantial proof to back up claims is very simple to do. Of course double blind placebo would be nice to avoid research bias but whatever you got please feel free to post it.

  6. #16
    Senior Member gillenator's Avatar
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    Definitely some good points and information outlined by Dr. Cole. It seems that beard grafts have become the buzz these days but I whole heartedly agree with many of the points that Dr. Cole mentioned.

    On another thread I had mentioned the differences in characteristics of various BH sources, especially beard donor.

    1) Beard hair can in fact bear acute visual differences in their characteristics as compared to the patient's scalp hair. For most, beard hair grows more kinky/wavy however in my own observations, it does grow to length unlike leg, back, abdomen, etc.

    2) It appears that beard hair has more consistent growth periods or longer duration once within the growth phase although there are few to no clinical studies outlining or identifying differences in growth cycles of various BH sources.

    3) BH from the beard typically has a much greater degree of coarseness as compared to the patient's own scalp hair. And this becomes even more visually noticeable if there is diffusing native hair within the recipient area.

    4) These fatter beard grafts can stick out visually speaking on patients that have a wide hair to scalp color contrast, especially dark hair on a fair complexion. And if the beard grafts are used on the hairline, they can appear unnatural because of the visual differences in hair shaft diameter. So even if there is no kink or acute wave to the regrown beard hair, the differences in caliber can still be a big issue. This becomes even more noticeable as the diffused weak hair is lost over time but the beard hair will stay.

    5) BH from the legs, back, chest, etc does not appear to be as coarse as beard grafts for most people, but may not grow to length, and the yield and survivability is very unpredictable as was mentioned.

    So yes, I have always been an advocate of doing tests sessions before committing to any larger sessions. And as I have stated before, these BH grafts can be located in a lower visual impact area like the midscalp to monitor yield and compatibility. Some docs use a special ink to mark, chart, and identify a well defined surface area with very small dots where the BH grafts are placed with no other scalp grafts. The area does not have to be large, usually a squared centimeter of space to start with.

    Good thread!
    "Gillenator"
    Independent Patient Advocate
    more.hair@verizon.net

    NOTE: I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice nor are they the opinions of the following endorsing physicians: Dr. Bob True & Dr. Bob Dorin

  7. #17
    Member wylie's Avatar
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    I wouldn't argue too much with what Dr. Cole said, other than one comment, where he said "I am the expert on BHT", which is not true, and has never been true. Dr. Umar is the current expert on BHT, and I'm not sure who "they" is that he is referring to asking him to speak on the matter, but Dr. Umar's research is published in peer reviewed medical journals, and his results speaks for itself.

    Sorry Dr. Cole, but you aint the expert on BHT. That title would be shared between Dr. Woods and Dr. Umar, with you finishing a distant third.

    And speaking from my own experience, having over 5000 beard grafts extracted, beard hair can be trained on the scalp over time, repeated combing can help with the natural tendency for this hair to be curly to the point of being kinky, and if you cut your scalp hair short, say around an inch to an inch and a half, it is virtually indistinguishable from scalp hair. When it grows over 2 inches in length I personally have to use some kind of styling gel (I currently use Samy styling gel, works great) but when it is under 2", I don't have to use anything.

    It does get tricky in the strip scars, I don't like to shave the back too short, due to numerous strip scars, and the beard tends to curl up in back, which makes it noticeable, and my barber knows to clip this hair separately during each haircut.

    As far as I'm concerned, this is a far better option than having to wear my hair much longer in back due to long lines of bald scalp in the back that was still visible with long-ish hair in back. These scars are no longer noticeable after around 1000 grafts into my scars. I even had it shaved close once by my barber, and it looked passable, but I was not comfortable enough to wear the look full time. However, shaving it close was not an option before I had beard into my scars. I'm thinking SMP added to the beard in the strip scars could be the coup de grace, but that industry worries me and seems to be crawling with con artists and charlatans, much like the HT industry of the 90's.

    My research is ongoing.

  8. #18
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    Thanks again everyone for your answer. The more information the better I think!


    A very big thank you to Dr Cole for your long and detailed answer it's very much appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by drcole View Post
    Oh goodness, here we go again with body hair.

    Around the turn of this century body hair hit the chart. Let me briefly review the history and results.

    In 2002, Ray Woods had reported on successful body hair transplants. By 2003 I was moving hair from the chest, abdomen, back, under arms, pubic area and legs. My first few cases were enormous successes. Then trouble hit. Some results were not so good. Then i began to study variables to achieve success with BHT (body hair transplants). Anagen hairs grow better than telogen hairs, but telogen hairs grow. Dense packing with BHT results in less growth. Optimal densities with BHT of less than 36 grafts per sq cm produce a better survival rate. Dense packing a combination of BHT and scalp hair can impair the survival rate of BOTH. Don't do it.

    With BHT about 25% of the cases result in noticeable hair growth. The rest get cosmetically insignificant growth. BHT can result in a rescue for those with scars and larger grafts, but it may not. Then again, good yields can sometimes fade over time especially with leg hair so be prepared for this.

    Head hair is king. The next best is beard. We began moving beard hair around 2007. The first thing we noted was how fast beard hair extractions healed. The second was how high the yield was on a consistent basis (about 60%). Then we noted that beard hair produce a better cosmetic result than a higher number of other sources of body hair. Beard is second best.

    What is the problem with beard hair? It is very coarse and curly, wavy, kinky. Some don't like it.

    Here is what i recommend. Do a trial of bear and see how you like the healing and the growth. if you don't like it, try something else. Here is the other problem with other sources. White dots or hypopigmentation. At least 50% of chest and abdomen harvests get white dots. White dots are very uncommon on the legs and more common on the back, though not anything near as common as chest and abdomen. Pubic and axilla hair area hard to harvest.

    Like I said hair is king. Use it fist. when you run dry or if you have very bad scarring due to strips of scalp reductions, or flaps, you may need to try BHT. Do a small session of 500 grafts and see how you respond. if the response is good, do more. If not, stop. If you like the appearance, do more. If not, stop.

    That's the summary. I can expound if you like as I've done in the millions of body hair grafts. I am the prevailing expert on BHT as i'm the guy they ask to speak about BHT or write the chapter on BHT. A summary is adequate simply because they work in some and if they work you are happy. In some they simply don't work. Beard is the exception as it consistently grows, but you may not like the appearance of the grafts.

    The one caveat I have not mentioned is that BHT seems to grow better with Acell and PRP.

  9. #19
    Senior Member gillenator's Avatar
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    wylie,

    You may have already mentioned this but how long ago did you have the 5,000 beard grafts, where did you have the procedure done, and how would you rate the overall yield in terms of percentages?

    Glad to see that you are happy and your comments on training the beard hair as it achieves length is great to know. Beard hair obviously has a much greater degree of coarseness. What is the maximum length that it has grown in inches?

    Thanks again for sharing your details.
    "Gillenator"
    Independent Patient Advocate
    more.hair@verizon.net

    NOTE: I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice nor are they the opinions of the following endorsing physicians: Dr. Bob True & Dr. Bob Dorin

  10. #20
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    Quick thought just crossed my mind. Could chemically straightening your train sort out any wavy etc body/beard transplanted hair?

    Lots of girls have it done and it makes your hair much smoother. Google it to see what I mean. It was just a thought that it could work

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