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  1. #31
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    [QUOTE=mature;125427]
    Quote Originally Posted by Aames View Post

    Here is where it is simple but can either make you suffer or just relax and enjoy things. IF you are trying to improve and strive for perfection this is delusional because it is in context to self image which is made up and whether it is good or bad its still illusive. The physical body is just like an empty vessel that you inhabit while here, there is no identification without self image. If you drop everything and forget about yourself you can still work on the body and do certain things, however there is no identity or sense of self involved in it. It is okay and perfectly fine to halt hair loss and be preventive, to work out and improve the physical vitality and strength, to better work the mind in IQ and intelligence, however its all just seen as kind of a game and you are completely unattached to it all. If you are constantly seeking improvement in the form of comparison or because of a slight feeling of being less then or inferior then it becomes neurotic and you get obsessive and compulsive. This turns something that should just be seen as fun and kind of a game into mental chains and shackles and a definite prescription of suffering. There are three ways human beings trick themselves into suffering, first is the false sense of needing to control everything. The second is wishing things were different, and the third is arguing with what is.

    There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve the functioning or keep aesthetics as long as you are completely unattached and realize it is not you. Once there is no identity or sense of self there is no emotional turmoil or psychological suffering. You have to see the impermanence of things and realize everything comes to a pass, in terms of body when we age we all lose our looks that is just something that happens with age, you will not look as good at 70 as you did at 25.

    Hope this makes sense, it can seem a little too far over some heads if a person is too identified with their personal or collective conditioning.
    I think I understand what you are saying. I should attach no importance to aesthetics as they are fleeting and not actually a representation of me? I can pursue them if I recognize my body as only a vessel and I separate my mental/emotional being from my physical being? You have really helped me think about things differently, mature. I have to thank you yet again for your detailed responses.

  2. #32
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    [QUOTE=Aames;125761]
    Quote Originally Posted by mature View Post
    I think I understand what you are saying. I should attach no importance to aesthetics as they are fleeting and not actually a representation of me? I can pursue them if I recognize my body as only a vessel and I separate my mental/emotional being from my physical being? You have really helped me think about things differently, mature. I have to thank you yet again for your detailed responses.
    Exactly, but it is one thing to believe something and to apply it in that way, a complete other to know and realize that you are not that and to have no wavering distress or conflict through anything at least internally... Hair loss is extremely distressing and painful to ego not you, that's why some people get massively insecure and depressed over hair loss and others don't care about it at all.. It's just that different people find different things important but that's all in the form of mind and self image and whatever threatens that is heavily painful, even moving beyond it and letting it go..

  3. #33
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    I highly suggest checking out a book called Falling into Grace by Adyashanti when you get the chance Aames, it will do far more for you then a bit of talk therapy I feel...

  4. #34
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    [QUOTE=mature;125827]
    Quote Originally Posted by Aames View Post

    Exactly, but it is one thing to believe something and to apply it in that way, a complete other to know and realize that you are not that and to have no wavering distress or conflict through anything at least internally... Hair loss is extremely distressing and painful to ego not you, that's why some people get massively insecure and depressed over hair loss and others don't care about it at all.. It's just that different people find different things important but that's all in the form of mind and self image and whatever threatens that is heavily painful, even moving beyond it and letting it go..
    Oh, absolutely. If I could only apply the knowledge that I have, I would likely be completely happy. The application of these things is the most difficult part.


    Quote Originally Posted by mature View Post
    I highly suggest checking out a book called Falling into Grace by Adyashanti when you get the chance Aames, it will do far more for you then a bit of talk therapy I feel...
    I absolutely will; I have a ton of free time and really enjoy reading. Thank you so much, mature. Your comments have really helped me analyze myself and my behaviors that cause me distress. I think I now know the path that I need to follow.

  5. #35
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    BDD is awful. Many times I think I am through with the worst of it, but it always seems to come back. This month has been bad

    Aames, I have read about your experience growing up....would you say your BDD was triggered by going from fat guy to good looking? (No offense, this is a serious question)
    That exact type of situation is what set mine off I think. I was an awkward kid from about age 12 until 15 or 16....bad skin, no style, etc. Girls pretty much never noticed me, but nearing the end of puberty my looks took a 180.

    This was when I realized, life is infinitely better when you have female attention/validation. It seriously is like night and day to me. & I think this transition is what mentally f*cked me up for the long haul. Ever since then I have had so much more to lose....when MPB hit (before I realized how well meds could work) I thought it was all over, like I was dead already

    Does this ring a bell for you? When you have experienced both sides of the coin, how can you possibly go back?? Seriously, I feel like I would rather die than go back to being in that awkward kid's shoes man. I would do anything to stop that from happening

    I think this is why I feel like crap when I feel starved for validation. I can feel my younger self creeping back to the surface, it puts me back in that mind set.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 25 going on 65 View Post
    BDD is awful. Many times I think I am through with the worst of it, but it always seems to come back. This month has been bad

    Aames, I have read about your experience growing up....would you say your BDD was triggered by going from fat guy to good looking? (No offense, this is a serious question)
    That exact type of situation is what set mine off I think. I was an awkward kid from about age 12 until 15 or 16....bad skin, no style, etc. Girls pretty much never noticed me, but nearing the end of puberty my looks took a 180.

    This was when I realized, life is infinitely better when you have female attention/validation. It seriously is like night and day to me. & I think this transition is what mentally f*cked me up for the long haul. Ever since then I have had so much more to lose....when MPB hit (before I realized how well meds could work) I thought it was all over, like I was dead already

    Does this ring a bell for you? When you have experienced both sides of the coin, how can you possibly go back?? Seriously, I feel like I would rather die than go back to being in that awkward kid's shoes man. I would do anything to stop that from happening

    I think this is why I feel like crap when I feel starved for validation. I can feel my younger self creeping back to the surface, it puts me back in that mind set.
    I completely understand where you are coming from. Now that I have tasted what it feels like to experience the world as an attractive person, I could never go back. I agree completely. That is why MPB sent me on this spiral into caring about aesthetics so much. I would rather be dead than to go back to how it used to be. Attention, both female and male, just feels too good. I try to convince myself that I do all this just for me, but I don't really think that's true. The fat kid that just wants attention and people to like him is still inside of me.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aames View Post
    I completely understand where you are coming from. Now that I have tasted what it feels like to experience the world as an attractive person, I could never go back. I agree completely. That is why MPB sent me on this spiral into caring about aesthetics so much. I would rather be dead than to go back to how it used to be. Attention, both female and male, just feels too good. I try to convince myself that I do all this just for me, but I don't really think that's true. The fat kid that just wants attention and people to like him is still inside of me.
    Genuine inquiry: What have you done to make yourself "attractive"?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigThinker View Post
    Genuine inquiry: What have you done to make yourself "attractive"?
    Lost 75 lbs mostly. It's hard to see your facial shape when you hold fat in your face. Also my acne was non-existent for a time. This is the period when I had a gf and got a lot of female attention. I regained 20 lbs thanks to BED/bulimia and my acne came back within the last year. Struggling to get it back under control. I suspect binging and acne are related.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aames View Post
    Lost 75 lbs mostly. It's hard to see your facial shape when you hold fat in your face. Also my acne was non-existent for a time. This is the period when I had a gf and got a lot of female attention. I regained 20 lbs thanks to BED/bulimia and my acne came back within the last year. Struggling to get it back under control. I suspect binging and acne are related.
    Wow, well congrats on losing the 75 lbs (assuming they were excess weight) -- that's actually quite an accomplishment. I can't even shake this belly fat I've accrued over the winter.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aames View Post
    I completely understand where you are coming from. Now that I have tasted what it feels like to experience the world as an attractive person, I could never go back. I agree completely. That is why MPB sent me on this spiral into caring about aesthetics so much. I would rather be dead than to go back to how it used to be. Attention, both female and male, just feels too good. I try to convince myself that I do all this just for me, but I don't really think that's true. The fat kid that just wants attention and people to like him is still inside of me.
    Yes it is definitely about validation and acceptance from others, I would say.
    I also have this nightmare scenario of people seeing me and saying "remember how that guy used to be? Look at him now!" That went through my head a thousand times when I realized I had MPB.

    I have known guys like this who completely let themselves go in the last 10 years or just had terrible luck with genetics (MPB is the biggest possible image destroyer in your 20s besides self neglect or freak accidents/diseases). When I see how people talk about those kinds of guys I think, "if people ever speak about me like that it would be the worst depression spiral known to man"

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