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  1. #11
    Senior Member mpb47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike2013 View Post
    Thanks for the response. I am curious though, when you started, did you notice a sudden hair lost? I can't believe how much i've lost from using it. Most of it was lost within the second and third month.
    My experience with minox:

    95% of the time my mpb has been slow. When that is the case minox will help a great deal

    That other 5% when my crown first started thinning: Minox did nothing other than make my hair go through rapid growth/loss cycles but pictures showed it was steadily getting worse. I saw a big change in about 2 years.

    What the other posters said is right. Even if your mpb is gradual..on minox alone it will very slowly continue.

    If you can use propecia, do it. That is the only thing that really stopped it for me. I am hoping I can get back on it one day. Right now I am on minox alone and it is helping but I am still slowly losing ground. Good luck!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy C View Post
    Generally, it takes four to six months of use as directed before a man will know if Rogaine is working for him (8 to 12 months for a woman using 2%). It takes much longer before you will know how well Rogaine is working for you. About 12 to 18 months.
    This is deceptive. By "working" you mean "hair regrowth". But if you mean "stopping hairloss", then the result should be apparent within 2-3 months. There are many guys, who start with the treatment too late and expect miracles. I jumped on minoxidil very early, immediately after I observed the first signs of balding, so at NW 1.5, I didn't need any regrowth. And the stuff has been working with the same efficiacy for 16+ years.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpb47 View Post
    What the other posters said is right. Even if your mpb is gradual..on minox alone it will very slowly continue. !
    Do these "other posters" have any clinical data to support this claim? Of course, they don't. They only spread unsubstantied misinformation resulting from their personal frustration and a lack of success with anti-hairloss medications.

    The longest studies on minoxidil are from late 80's, and the longest of them lasted 5 years (Olssen et al. 1990). Although the average haircounts in this study started to decrease after 2 years, it is worthy of note that if we extrapolated the declining curve into the future, the average user in this study would reach the baseline after ca. 15 years. Furthermore, one-third of well-responding patients gained hair even after 5 years. And this was with 3% minoxidil! In fact, there are people, who have been keeping their hair with minoxidil since it entered the market in 1987!

    I think that if we actually had any long-term study on minoxidil at disposal, we would be very surprised, how effective this drug is. The very fact that the majority of unsuccessful minoxidil users on internet forums consists of people, in whom it "stopped working after few years" may indeed show that this sample is highly unrepresentative. Furthermore, many of them idly waited, until they were NW4, and now they wonder that they can't keep the process at bay. Their fault. Letting aside the fact that the everyday's topical application places high demands on discipline, which only a minority of people possess.

    Personally, I started to use minoxidil in 1997 and it would never occur to me that it should stop working. And it never did, even after 16+ years. It was only after I started to visit internet forums in 2007, when I first heard claims about "the loss of effeciacy".

    I am disgusted by this stupid defeatist propaganda that I encounter on internet forums. But I realize that this situation will always be the same, because people, who use anti-hairloss drugs successfully, don't visit these forums and may not even know that they exist.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
    I can't say this enough, Rogaine by itself will not single handily stop your hair loss, regrow your hair, and maintain it just like that. It's just not going to happen. Rogaine by itself=2 steps forward, 1 step backward. I forgot which doctor I read that from, but he's 100% correct.
    Several years ago, many doctors claimed that fin stops working "after 3-5 years". Now, when we have fresh 10-years' data of its efficiacy, they suddenly changed their opinion. Which means that their opinions are worthless. They extrapolate from few cases that they encounter in their clinical praxis, and sometimes show complete inability to understand written words.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarLord View Post
    Do these "other posters" have any clinical data to support this claim? Of course, they don't. They only spread unsubstantied misinformation resulting from their personal frustration and a lack of success with anti-hairloss medications.

    The longest studies on minoxidil are from late 80's, and the longest of them lasted 5 years (Olssen et al. 1990). Although the average haircounts in this study started to decrease after 2 years, it is worthy of note that if we extrapolated the declining curve into the future, the average user in this study would reach the baseline after ca. 15 years. Furthermore, one-third of well-responding patients gained hair even after 5 years. And this was with 3% minoxidil! In fact, there are people, who have been keeping their hair with minoxidil since it entered the market in 1987!

    I think that if we actually had any long-term study on minoxidil at disposal, we would be very surprised, how effective this drug is. The very fact that the majority of unsuccessful minoxidil users on internet forums consists of people, in whom it "stopped working after few years" may indeed show that this sample is highly unrepresentative. Furthermore, many of them idly waited, until they were NW4, and now they wonder that they can't keep the process at bay. Their fault. Letting aside the fact that the everyday's topical application places high demands on discipline, which only a minority of people possess.

    Personally, I started to use minoxidil in 1997 and it would never occur to me that it should stop working. And it never did, even after 16+ years. It was only after I started to visit internet forums in 2007, when I first heard claims about "the loss of effeciacy".

    I am disgusted by this stupid defeatist propaganda that I encounter on internet forums. But I realize that this situation will always be the same, because people, who use anti-hairloss drugs successfully, don't visit these forums and may not even know that they exist.

    Exactly.

    And most of the stories you read about people who say it stopped working for them are normally proceeded with 'oh and I got really lazy applying it, sometimes I'd only put it on once every 2 weeks'.

    These are usually guys that are NW4+ and expect minox to give them justin bieber hair again, they're just idiots who have done no research and have no patience.

    The reason there's so few studies on it is because it's almost impossible to tell what would of been had someone not used a product, even if the study lasts 5 years.
    What would need to happen is someone would need to get 100 identical twins, all of whom are willing to stick religiously to the regimen, then have one twin use the medicine and the other not use anything.
    Only then would we get a real idea of the long term efficiency of minox with a proper control group.

    Even IF someone were to return to baseline after 10 years in a study, they'd have been much further down the road without using anything.

  6. #16
    Senior Member mpb47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarLord View Post
    Do these "other posters" have any clinical data to support this claim? Of course, they don't. They only spread unsubstantied misinformation resulting from their personal frustration and a lack of success with anti-hairloss medications.

    The longest studies on minoxidil are from late 80's, and the longest of them lasted 5 years (Olssen et al. 1990). Although the average haircounts in this study started to decrease after 2 years, it is worthy of note that if we extrapolated the declining curve into the future, the average user in this study would reach the baseline after ca. 15 years. Furthermore, one-third of well-responding patients gained hair even after 5 years. And this was with 3% minoxidil! In fact, there are people, who have been keeping their hair with minoxidil since it entered the market in 1987!

    I think that if we actually had any long-term study on minoxidil at disposal, we would be very surprised, how effective this drug is. The very fact that the majority of unsuccessful minoxidil users on internet forums consists of people, in whom it "stopped working after few years" may indeed show that this sample is highly unrepresentative. Furthermore, many of them idly waited, until they were NW4, and now they wonder that they can't keep the process at bay. Their fault. Letting aside the fact that the everyday's topical application places high demands on discipline, which only a minority of people possess.

    Personally, I started to use minoxidil in 1997 and it would never occur to me that it should stop working. And it never did, even after 16+ years. It was only after I started to visit internet forums in 2007, when I first heard claims about "the loss of effeciacy".

    I am disgusted by this stupid defeatist propaganda that I encounter on internet forums. But I realize that this situation will always be the same, because people, who use anti-hairloss drugs successfully, don't visit these forums and may not even know that they exist.
    Minox never stops working it's just that it can't completely stop the effects of DHT over time. I have been on it about the same amount of time and it is still working for me. But I would be lying through my teeth if I claimed I was not gradually getting balder over time.

    Are you saying you have not lost any hair since '97 on minox alone WITHOUT propecia?

  7. #17
    Senior Member mpb47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarLord View Post
    Several years ago, many doctors claimed that fin stops working "after 3-5 years". Now, when we have fresh 10-years' data of its efficiacy, they suddenly changed their opinion. Which means that their opinions are worthless. They extrapolate from few cases that they encounter in their clinical praxis, and sometimes show complete inability to understand written words.
    There are no set rules in stone. For some it does stop working as well after X amount of years. Some have got 15+ years and it's still going. Everyone is different.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpb47 View Post
    Are you saying you have not lost any hair since '97 on minox alone WITHOUT propecia?
    Yes. What is so surprising on this? And I am certainly not alone in this world.
    http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...threadid=75704

    5-AR blockers eliminate DHT that stands at the root of the process. Minoxidil counterbalances the negative effect of prostaglandins that stand at the end of the chain of reactions triggered by DHT. It doesn't matter, if you use 5-AR blockers or minoxidil. They both work. Well, it is true that 5-AR blockers may work better than 5% minoxidil, but what about 10% or 15% minoxidil?

    It is only due to the myths spread by certain individuals in the internet that people started to believe that "minoxidil doesn't address the underlying cause of MPB" and hence it is not possible that it could work forever. This is a silly fallacy that is at variance with both anecdotal experience and available clinical data.

    With finasteride, it is not much different. Internet forums are full of guys whining that it will stop working for all men one day. At the same time, in the Rossi et al.'s study, only 4% men experienced a reversal of the positive trend during those 10 years. Four percent! But on this site, you can estimate that these guys make up 80-90% posters! In other words, we get a very perverse picture about how the drugs work. I wouldn't recommend to anyone to visit these forums regularly, after they get the advice they needed.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpb47 View Post
    There are no set rules in stone. For some it does stop working as well after X amount of years. Some have got 15+ years and it's still going. Everyone is different.
    Exactly. The drugs have a very variable degree of efficiacy. This is why some people on 3% minoxidil enjoyed continued growth even after 4-5 years, while others were losing hair despite regular minoxidil use. It is a shame that the companies have no long-term data at disposal and the internet mythmakers can brainwash people by their fallacies.

    The fatal mistake of some people (and often it's doctors) is that they extrapolate from certain individual cases and make general statements like "minoxidil works only for 3-5 years". Yes, for SOME people. And the studies from late 80's indicate that these people aren't even a majority, but rather a small minority.

    By the way, I don't buy all those stories about people, who regrew hair on minoxidil and then they started to lose it quickly after several years. There must be some other factors in the game. Most probably sloppy application.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpb47 View Post
    Minox never stops working it's just that it can't completely stop the effects of DHT over time. I have been on it about the same amount of time and it is still working for me. But I would be lying through my teeth if I claimed I was not gradually getting balder over time.

    Are you saying you have not lost any hair since '97 on minox alone WITHOUT propecia?
    But remember one thing: I started immediately after I observed first signs of hairloss. And I still benefit from this, because I have been NW 1.5 until today. This may be the key for a long-term success.

    Actually, why the hell should minoxidil ultimately stop working in all people? People use various medications for decades and they still work. In some, they work only partly or don't work at all. This is normal. It is only the delusional, old-fashioned idea that "there is nothing that can be done about MPB" that influences your opinion about the long-term efficiacy of anti-hairloss drugs. Why should they be different from other drugs that people use?

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