Difference between a 'mature hairline' and early MPB?

[drybone]

Wow. what a story!!

Thanks for sharing. I have only been on Fin for a month so I have not seen any side effects.

have you considered a hair transplant?

[mpb47]

Wow. what a story!!

Thanks for sharing. I have only been on Fin for a month so I have not seen any side effects.

have you considered a hair transplant?

Yes and just recently I mentioned talking to a dr about it in another thread. The problem is (and not the Dr's fault) is they can't predict/stop progression. So you can't have just one and still not go bald later down the line.

Honestly if I could just tolerate Propecia in small amounts I think I would be just fine. So I am experimenting taking very small (.25) very infrequent doses.

Despite many sites saying the mother's side of the family is a myth, my loss is nothing like on my dad's side and exactly like it is on my mom's side. Even my grandma could see it before I did and told me the bad news. The problem is I am getting pretty close in age (late 40's) as to when my uncle went through a rapid mpb spurt and went from thinning in the back to an outright bald spot and it just kept going from there.

So I am hoping that if/when that starts happening to me, I can use propecia to hold it off.

Good luck with propecia you may never have any issues with it at all.
Someone suggested that I got sides because it worked so well for me.
But I do not believe it is that simple, because there is another guy on ************ that got better results than me and has been on it for 15 years with no problems. He even mentioned knowing 2 dr's that had been on it for 10 years with no problems. So for some it is never going to be a problem.

[drybone]

You are in the same boat as I am.

I have my grand dads hairline from my moms side. He slowly thinned on the top but the back was full. Its a NW3 A .

I went for a hair transplant because of these factors;

1) my grandad never went bald. He just continued to thin and thin. He ended up like a NW 4A at age 75 when he passed away.

2) I have researched MPS and most of the indications I get are that the amount of DHT necessary to kill your hair follicles depends on how much testosterone you have to convert. As we get older, we have less testosterone and by age 65 we no longer are producing enough DHT to damage your hair anymore. Not like when we were younger anyways.

3) So at age 46, knowing I had at worst a NW4 to work with for life, plus the fact I had only 19 years to go until i can keep the rest, I decided to go for it.

I did a 1333 HT to rebuild the 1/2 inch frontal hairline . All the grafts went into there. Amazingly , 300 hairs have survived and kept right on growing. Its been 3 1/2 months now and I see some sprouts and some germinating just below the surface.

I am going to get another 2500 put in next year to fill out the density of my NW 3 and touch up the density of my hairline.

I am taking finasteride so that I can keep the rest of my hair that I was supposed to lose until age 65. At that age we no longer have MPB but both men and women lose hair due to simply old age

I hope my story inspires you . You story was awesome.

[mpb47]

You are in the same boat as I am.

I have my grand dads hairline from my moms side. He slowly thinned on the top but the back was full. Its a NW3 A .

In my case, my pattern is the same as my mom's brother, father, and even grandfather. My grandmother thought it may go back even further than that was not sure. When she first told me this, I was not convinced because all I had was a little recession that had not changed in years (I didn't know it at the time but at that point, my late 20's, it was just a mature hairline). She was sure because hairline was becoming "pointy" just like my uncles did. But if it was true, then why did I not have his bald spot? She said it wouldn't start until I was 35-40 and sure enough around 36.5 is when I first discovered
that I had definitely started to thin in the back. I was shocked and also found it rather ironic because that is where my hair has always been the thickest. Probably why I have been able to conceal it for so long though that is getting harder and harder to do.

Not that I needed any more proof but I saw 2 photos of my uncle when he was 38. I was about 2 months away from turning 38 and it was uncanny that our spots were very similar. Instead of developing a round shaped spot, we both had oval shaped spots...think of a racetrack from viewed overhead.

I went for a hair transplant because of these factors;

1) my grandad never went bald. He just continued to thin and thin. He ended up like a NW 4A at age 75 when he passed away.

2) I have researched MPS and most of the indications I get are that the amount of DHT necessary to kill your hair follicles depends on how much testosterone you have to convert. As we get older, we have less testosterone and by age 65 we no longer are producing enough DHT to damage your hair anymore. Not like when we were younger anyways.

Yes it certainly seems to at least slow way down at that point. My uncle seemed to max out around NW6 around 60-65. He is around 72 now and it had not gotten any worse. Funny thing is it actually looks slightly better as his horseshoe doesn't seem to go down as far as it used to. Not that I am going to ask but I have noticed it and wondered if he was on propecia....not for hair as it is too late for that...but for prostate. It is a common problem at that age...as my dad could have cared less about his hair and didn't even begin to bald till about 70. He was put on avodart shortly afterwards and his spot filled in!!!

3) So at age 46, knowing I had at worst a NW4 to work with for life, plus the fact I had only 19 years to go until i can keep the rest, I decided to go for it.

Well that is problem #1 for me as I won't have such luck to stay at a 4. I will be a 6 without meds for sure. It will just take a me a long time to get there

I did a 1333 HT to rebuild the 1/2 inch frontal hairline . All the grafts went into there. Amazingly , 300 hairs have survived and kept right on growing. Its been 3 1/2 months now and I see some sprouts and some germinating just below the surface.

I am going to get another 2500 put in next year to fill out the density of my NW 3 and touch up the density of my hairline.

I am taking finasteride so that I can keep the rest of my hair that I was supposed to lose until age 65. At that age we no longer have MPB but both men and women lose hair due to simply old age

I hope my story inspires you . You story was awesome.

Hey man that sounds great! You now have a non issue from the sounds of it!

But for me you just hit on #2 why I can't go your route. Docs , esp when dealing with crown, insist on propecia. They say the crown never stops expanding and from all that I have read, I think they are right. So I had to tell the Dr I consulted with that I had used it, it worked great, but after about 4 years i got sides. Well all guarantees are out the door at that point and I completely understand and would be the same way If I was the one doing the work. Doc's love propecia far more than minox. I was just mentioning a freind in another thread. She is not a real dr but more like a Doc jr (not sure of the professional title) . I guess she didn't think I knew about it as she wanted me to get on asap as there was no reason I had to go bald. She kinda lectured me on how it would slowly creep up on me without it. Like I didn't already know that! She never once even mentioned minox only propecia. At that point I was too embarrassed to admit I had already been on it but had to get off of it.

I have a fresh supply in my bathroom closet (and even larger older supply in my bedroom closest). Just too chicken right now to try again, least on a reg basis. Probably what will happen is I will wait. And when it becomes a true bald spot in a few more years, I won't be able to stand it anymore and then get back on it on reg basis (but smaller dose) and just cross my fingers..ah so frustrating!

Good luck but sounds like you are home free for sure!

[burtandernie]

In my mind there is no difference between MPB and hair loss of any kind wherever it happens. If you see 1 miniaturized hair that does not grow back you have MPB/hair loss. How is losing hair not MPB I mean isnt that what it is?

[Dan26]

I noticed many younger guys who lift a lot develop mature hairlines, maybe 'prematurely' so to speak, but do not have MPB.

[drybone]

In my mind there is no difference between MPB and hair loss of any kind wherever it happens. If you see 1 miniaturized hair that does not grow back you have MPB/hair loss. How is losing hair not MPB I mean isnt that what it is?

MPB is 'male pattern baldness' which is caused by a hormone called DHT which is converted from testosterone. Women have far lower levels of testosterone so they dont have the DHT kill their hair follicles.

Men lose their testosterone, starting at age 30. Our levels start to decline until about age 45 we have lost half our testosterone.

By age 65 our testosterone levels are so low they can no longer convert enough into DHT to kill our remaining hair follicles on the top of our head. Whatever we have left at 65 remains.

The difference is this. At this age, both men and women are losing hair due to old age. Its not a 'male pattern baldness' issue anymore. In fact, its far more devastating to women who have had hair their whole lives.

At this point we will lose hair all over, not just on the top but sides and back too due to old age. The keys to maintaining our bodies in general would be exercise, diet , health care and genetics.

Hope this helps

[mpb47]

In my mind there is no difference between MPB and hair loss of any kind wherever it happens. If you see 1 miniaturized hair that does not grow back you have MPB/hair loss. How is losing hair not MPB I mean isnt that what it is?

Well practically speaking you are right. It is a matter of timing in like 85% of the time. In my case I had a hairline like a woman up till about 15. Then it slowly became concave and stayed that way for many many years. Sometime between my late 20's and mid 30's it started to recede again and at the same time my crown started thinning out. So I lost a small amount of hair in my teens then nothing else until aprox. 20 years later. That amount of time is the difference. For some it could be a much shorter amount of time and for others much longer before you start to develop mpb.

[drybone]

Well practically speaking you are right. It is a matter of timing in like 85% of the time. In my case I had a hairline like a woman up till about 15. Then it slowly became concave and stayed that way for many many years. Sometime between my late 20's and mid 30's it started to recede again and at the same time my crown started thinning out. So I lost a small amount of hair in my teens then nothing else until aprox. 20 years later. That amount of time is the difference. For some it could be a much shorter amount of time and for others much longer before you start to develop mpb.

I know we have talked about this before and I appreciate your thoughts, but I still think you are wrong.

There is a REASON why we lose our hair. Its the DHT . The rest is simply a matter of which hair falls out in what pattern and how long it takes.

In your case your temple hair died almost imediately due to dht , but the rest slowly fell out and you didnt notice the thickness decline.

By time you were in your thirties it finally was so thin as to be seen so you think it just started now?

If you are right, explain how the DHT stops and starts killing hair? How does that work?

[mpb47]

I know we have talked about this before and I appreciate your thoughts, but I still think you are wrong.

There is a REASON why we lose our hair. Its the DHT . The rest is simply a matter of which hair falls out in what pattern and how long it takes.

In your case your temple hair died almost imediately due to dht , but the rest slowly fell out and you didnt notice the thickness decline.

By time you were in your thirties it finally was so thin as to be seen so you think it just started now?

If you are right, explain how the DHT stops and starts killing hair? How does that work?

No debate that is is hormones in both cases. As to why it started and stopped, no one really knows for sure. I have read suggested theories that mpb genes have sort of a time clock that tellls when each of your hair follicles are to begin to miniaturize and that is also the reason you lose your hair in pattern rather than all at once.

As to your other question, I know I did not have hairline miniaturization (ie diffuse thining) until my late 20's or 30s. Before then, my hairline was changed for sure but the hair was thick and normal. Miniaturization is when some hair docs say mpb truly begins.