Gho age restrictions?

[JJJJrS]

Iron_Man is spot on.

We've had many people share pictures of their donor after HST and not a single one of them has shown or reported any visible scarring. In my opinion, this is one of the least controversial aspects of the procedure since we've seen so much evidence to back it up. In terms of scarring, it's miles ahead of any other procedure or surgeon's work.

There's a reason I did such a comprehensive, exhaustive analysis. For people who are unfamiliar with the procedure, there is a lot of objective information you can learn if you take the time to look through it.

[534623]

Enough with the childish insults Ironman. Why can't we just have a mature discussion about this topic?

You're right, mister. So, now please enlighten us with you "scarring wisdom"...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/15/3278666/gc-2days-after.jpg

This photo shows gc's donor area 2 days after 1600 HST extractions and you also have the BEFORE photo in this thread.
The following photo shows gc's donor area 24 days after 1600 HST extractions:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/15/3278666/gc-24days-after.jpg

As you can see, even without zooming the photos, I already encircled for you ONE extraction site as "marker" for you and labled this site/graft with "12". So it's pretty easy for you to do the same with every other extractions site in both photos (or even including the BEFORE photo) everywhere around extraction site #12 - right?

So, PLEASE show us the conclusive proof of all the scarring you can see in gc's donor area after having 3 HST procedures and 3000 HST grafts all in all so far ...
Thanks in advance for the mature discussion in this thread and for the conclusive scarring proof you will provide us.

[gc83uk]

Looks like I'm going to have to razor head and jump on the sunbeds just to prove a point.

[534623]

By the way - here is such "a" reason, why you guys very very rare can see online good high quality photos of normal FUE procedures, who show you donor areas after NORMAL FUE procedures - I'm talking about SHAVED DOWN photos, and not any fast comb-over photos/videos with longer hairs...

The patient reported THE story in another hairloss forum:
He had a FUE hair transplant and it was told him that he should get around 800 grafts to refine his hairline but "i can count at least 1300 red holes on my nape". In addition he mentioned "I could count only 700 punches at the recipient area". Furthermore, he mentioned "I'm questioning the facts: I paid for 800 grafts, but there's around 1300-1400 holes in my donor area. As you can see it on the picture it is pretty obvious."

But besides all this - can you see WHERE (in which areas) they extracted the grafts? Pfffffft....

I’ve just made another observation…


As most guys know, who followed very closely gc’s case, they extracted always 700 grafts per treatment (gc’s 1st HST= 700 grafts and gc’s 2nd HST = 700 grafts) – am I right?

According to gc’s reports, the WIDTH of the partially shaved (always the same donor area) has always been around 1 inch = 2.54 cm – am I right?

The LENGTH of the partially shaved area is also pretty easy to estimate, if you simply use a thin wire or yarn and if you “stretch” it from ear to ear in a curved manner (simply in the manner as strip docs amputate the fleshy and bloody strip from strip HT victims) – I estimated the lenght around 27 cm – okay?

So let’s calculate the AREA of gc’s partially shaved donor area:

27 x 2.54= around 67 cm² - am I right?

So, we don’t know gc’s hair density in his donor area, to calculate the amount of grafts in this partially shaved area. gc has definitely a subnormal density in his donor area, what –on the other hand- makes it pretty easy to analyze his photos and grafts and even to encircle every graft.

So let’s simply estimate a density of 70 grafts per cm² - what’s, in fact, absolutely okay, I think, I this case. So let’s calculate again…

67 x 70 = around 4700 follicular units/grafts in gc’s partially shaved area - am I right?

As mentioned in another thread, in the HSI cinics, they do not extract more than 10% or in best case around 15% within the SAFETY ZONE – am I right?

So let’s say 13% - okay?

13% of 4700 grafts (all in all in this partially shaved area) = 611 grafts

It seems my very roughly estimation is pretty good and accurate …

Anyway, in the other case I reported in this thread (the guy with the 700 recipient FUE grafts but 1300-1400 FUE holes in his donor area thereafter) why the hell has there been the need for such a really BIG extraction AREA for just 700-800 recipient FUE grafts??

[J_B_Davis]

You guys really need to relax! All I'm saying is that HST is NOT scarless, and to be fair, you're providing images of less refined FUE. Ironman, you have too much time on your hands, but even with all of your efforts you're personally proving nothing.

Like I said, gc83uk's donor looks fantastic, but he does have scars and they are as plain as day. He should be very happy with his results so far, but we need to be honest here. Even Dr. Gho admits that HST leaves scars, I don't know why you are so afraid to admit this? Surgery of any kind will leave scars. I also don't believe that gc83uk has to prove anything to me and certainly should not subject himself to going to a tanning bed to prove his point to anyone. All that matters is that he is happy. Just like all that matters is that people who have FUE are happy.

People can make their own choices. If someone is happy with possible less scaring and less hair on their head, than Gho might be your man. If they are less concerned with hidden scaring and want a fuller head of hair, designed by a more skilled surgeon, than they should seek out a doctor who can provide that. I find it so funny that this has to be a fight to the death.

It's a good thing that people have more choices now, why isn't that seen as a positive.?

[534623]

You guys really need to relax! All I'm saying is that HST is NOT scarless, and to be fair, you're providing images of less refined FUE.

And what do you provide, I mean, besides wilde claims?

[JJJJrS]

You guys really need to relax! All I'm saying is that HST is NOT scarless, and to be fair, you're providing images of less refined FUE. Ironman, you have too much time on your hands, but even with all of your efforts you're personally proving nothing.

Like I said, gc83uk's donor looks fantastic, but he does have scars and they are as plain as day. He should be very happy with his results so far, but we need to be honest here. Even Dr. Gho admits that HST leaves scars, I don't know why you are so afraid to admit this? Surgery of any kind will leave scars. I also don't believe that gc83uk has to prove anything to me and certainly should not subject himself to going to a tanning bed to prove his point to anyone. All that matters is that he is happy. Just like all that matters is that people who have FUE are happy.

People can make their own choices. If someone is happy with possible less scaring and less hair on their head, than Gho might be your man. If they are less concerned with hidden scaring and want a fuller head of hair, designed by a more skilled surgeon, than they should seek out a doctor who can provide that. I find it so funny that this has to be a fight to the death.

It's a good thing that people have more choices now, why isn't that seen as a positive.?

Why don't you circle the scarring in the pictures gc has provided? You're the only one here who notices any scarring so why don't you back up your claims?

I'm glad that you're happy with traditional hair transplants, although there's something about your posts that seem suspicious I have to admit . Most people aren't though, and that's why we'd rather investigate new, cutting-edge procedures.

[FearTheLoss]

You guys really need to relax! All I'm saying is that HST is NOT scarless, and to be fair, you're providing images of less refined FUE. Ironman, you have too much time on your hands, but even with all of your efforts you're personally proving nothing.

Like I said, gc83uk's donor looks fantastic, but he does have scars and they are as plain as day. He should be very happy with his results so far, but we need to be honest here. Even Dr. Gho admits that HST leaves scars, I don't know why you are so afraid to admit this? Surgery of any kind will leave scars. I also don't believe that gc83uk has to prove anything to me and certainly should not subject himself to going to a tanning bed to prove his point to anyone. All that matters is that he is happy. Just like all that matters is that people who have FUE are happy.

People can make their own choices. If someone is happy with possible less scaring and less hair on their head, than Gho might be your man. If they are less concerned with hidden scaring and want a fuller head of hair, designed by a more skilled surgeon, than they should seek out a doctor who can provide that. I find it so funny that this has to be a fight to the death.

It's a good thing that people have more choices now, why isn't that seen as a positive.?

I don't understand where you see scarring?

[534623]

You guys really need to relax! All I'm saying is that HST is NOT scarless, and to be fair, you're providing images of less refined FUE.

By the why - can you explain a little bit more in detail what actually "refined FUE" means? Or is this just something you read anywhere on a HT docs website??

Or should I try -once again for you- to explain you, what "ultra refined FUE" actually means?

For example...

http://www.baldingblog.com/2013/01/22/fue-graft-quality-and-survival-part-2-of-4/#more-11566

*********************************
Dr. Rassman wrote recently:
"The denuded graft has always bothered me and every technique gets it when performing an FUE no matter which surgeon does it, and there does not seem to be influence by the commercial instrumentation used. There is one exception to this — when we developed and tested the FUE2 technique and used subdermal tumescence simultaneous with the FUE technique. As you can see on this FUE2 page, the grafts have no denuded distal end.

We have not commercialized this technique at this time and I am personally waiting to see if scientific studies being done now, will shed light on the importance of the denuded distal end for the FUE graft."
*********************************

So what does it mean?
Does it mean that FUE jockeys out there and after SO MANY YEARS and so many scientific meetings still don't know whether or not they should "ultra-refine" the grafts? lol

Furthermore....

http://www.baldingblog.com/2013/01/24/fue-more-automation-and-physician-integrity-part-4-of-4/

*********************************
Dr. Rassman wrote:
"I can not end this story without discussing the integrity of the doctor. Doctors tell you what they want you to hear — that they are the best at FUE, that they get less than 2% transection rates, that their vast experience makes them better than everyone else.

Can you or should you believe what the doctor is telling you?
I know for certain that many doctors claim expertise in FUE, promise minimal damage to the grafts, or even close to 100% growth rates, etc. The reality is that every patient getting FUE differs in their results and we published these differences in patient dynamics in a medical journal publication, which is the only such formal publication out there. I have seen some awful results with FUE and failures close to 90% in some patient. The proclamation of the doctor’s skills by the doctor is a reflection of their integrity. There is an old adage that if it sounds too good to be true, it is.
So in conclusion — be skeptical, use your skills in evaluating your doctor’s integrity as your guide as to what you can believe and what you can not believe. I look forward to comments from our readership."
*********************************

The ONLY ONE who is able and is allowed out there to claim he is doing "ultra-refined FUE", is, in fact and best case, Dr. Gho in the Netherlands.

[J_B_Davis]

Why don't you circle the scarring in the pictures gc has provided? You're the only one here who notices any scarring so why don't you back up your claims?

I'm glad that you're happy with traditional hair transplants, although there's something about your posts that seem suspicious I have to admit . Most people aren't though, and that's why we'd rather investigate new, cutting-edge procedures.

If you can't see the tiny scaring than you are simply in denial. I'm all for investigating cutting-edge procedures., that's one reason I read this section with great interest, but you guys need to be intellectually honest here. You throw out percentages of hairs regenerated and circle dots and make grafts and think this is some sort of proof. It's silly. Ironman lives a life of obvious solitude, bizarre obsession, and is at best socially inept, and you take his word as the law. Just stop and think about it for a second. It's hilarious!

I don't need to "back up my claims" JJJrs, I'm just pointing out what I see as obvious. If you disagree with it, that's your right. I have no skin in the game so why do I need to take my precious time to circle scars?

[FearTheLoss]

If you can't see the tiny scaring than you are simply in denial. I'm all for investigating cutting-edge procedures., that's one reason I read this section with great interest, but you guys need to be intellectually honest here. You throw out percentages of hairs regenerated and circle dots and make grafts and think this is some sort of proof. It's silly. Ironman lives a life of obvious solitude, bizarre obsession, and is at best socially inept, and you take his word as the law. Just stop and think about it for a second. It's hilarious!

I don't need to "back up my claims" JJJrs, I'm just pointing out what I see as obvious. If you disagree with it, that's your right. I have no skin in the game so why do I need to take my precious time to circle scars?

circle 5 scars.... just to show us where you are seeing this. I'm not saying there is no scarring at all, I'm just saying I don't see any so I must be blind

[ccmethinning]

Ironman lives a life of obvious solitude, bizarre obsession, and is at best socially inept, and you take his word as the law. Just stop and think about it for a second. It's hilarious!

Iron_Man helps hold hair loss companies accountable.

Also, does anybody think there would be as much interest in HST if it weren't for Iron_Man's passion for it? I feel he has brought a great amount of attention to it, attention that is helping move HST to be the significant step in the evolution of the hair restoration industry.

Show some appreciation for what he does.

[534623]

If you can't see the tiny scaring than you are simply in denial.

The only one in this thread who is simply in denial is YOU - because you're simply UNABLE to show us the proof for what you believe to see.

[534623]

...I feel he has brought a great amount of attention to it, attention that is helping move HST to be the significant step in the evolution of the hair restoration industry.

IN GENERAL - correct. Here are the proofs...



... and as long as there is NOBODY like Dr. Gho and HST - everybody and everything beyond doesn't exist for me.

Should actually be a BIG motivation for others in this field...

...but they always fail so horribly.

[JJJJrS]

I don't need to "back up my claims" JJJrs, I'm just pointing out what I see as obvious. If you disagree with it, that's your right. I have no skin in the game so why do I need to take my precious time to circle scars?

I hope that's the case but I'm not so sure about that...

Of course, you don't have to back up your claims, but don't expect to be taken seriously then. Repeating yourself isn't going to help either.

If you have enough time to argue this point than it shouldn't be a problem to copy the image into MS Paint, draw a few circles, and upload the results. Not that hard is it?

I'm all for investigating cutting-edge procedures., that's one reason I read this section with great interest, but you guys need to be intellectually honest here.

So you're talking about intellectual honesty but aren't even interested in backing up your claims? Makes perfect sense, but of course you have no dog in this race, you're just a neutral observer, am I right?

You throw out percentages of hairs regenerated and circle dots and make grafts and think this is some sort of proof. It's silly. Ironman lives a life of obvious solitude, bizarre obsession, and is at best socially inept, and you take his word as the law. Just stop and think about it for a second. It's hilarious!

I definitely don't take his word as law and the same applies to any poster, surgeon, or public figure, especially those who have financial ties to this industry. I only trust what I can back up on my own and am doing my best to get to the bottom of the procedure, unlike others who run away from the responsibility.

If you can't see the tiny scaring than you are simply in denial.

I see no visible scarring. Nobody else who has posted here sees any visible scarring. Maybe you're in denial then or maybe your monitor isn't working properly?

Why don't you do us all a favour, especially gc, and show us were this "scarring" is.