Aderans hopefully soon

[hellouser]

but there seams to be a connection between irreversible miniaturization and this muscle. we know that once a level of miniaturization is achieved the hair loss is irreversible.

That's not entirely true. It's only true relative to the minoxidil and finasteride as treatments for it. We've don't know if its reversible or not based on other known/unknown potential treatments either on their own or in combination (inhibitors of DKK1, PGD2, COX2, etc).

lets hope the the connection of APM is a result not the cause of this irreversible loss and once stem cells are awakened everything will return to normal. giving it a second thought, it seems that it is the result. how could they grew human follicle out side of the scalp when the follicles are not attached to such muscle ? who knows.

My thoughts too, it doesn't seem like the disconnect is the cause of hair loss, but rather a cascade of events. Follicle miniaturization is probably the cause of it, the APM attaches to the bulge... but if the follicle miniaturizes, wouldnt the bulge too and thus less contact until its lost?

on a different subject, is this japanese team on par with jahoda , lauster, and christiano

Yes, Tsuji labs are quite far in their work..... but as usual, you'll always hear '10 years' thrown around (alluding to them knowing what path to take and how long it will take which kind of suggests they know the solution, but would rather take 10 years).

[Swooping]

but there seams to be a connection between irreversible miniaturization and this muscle. we know that once a level of miniaturization is achieved the hair loss is irreversible. lets hope the the connection of APM is a result not the cause of this irreversible loss and once stem cells are awakened everything will return to normal. giving it a second thought, it seems that it is the result. how could they grew human follicle out side of the scalp when the follicles are not attached to such muscle ? who knows. on a different subject, is this japanese team on par with jahoda , lauster, and christiano?

There isn't proof that AGA is irreversible. Generally with the treatments we have now, yes it is irreversible in many cases. However in literature there have been extraordinary cases of regrowth under certain medications, take for example benoxaprofen where reversal has been shown in patients who had been bald for 25+ years. Estrogen therapy is known to reverse AGA to a high extent too in some cases. So I would say it is definitely reversible we just don't have a clue how to do it.

[beetee]

I must be missing something. Was there something in this Nature article that indicated this method couldn't be an effective treatment?

[35YrsAfter]

There isn't proof that AGA is irreversible. Generally with the treatments we have now, yes it is irreversible in many cases. However in literature there have been extraordinary cases of regrowth under certain medications, take for example benoxaprofen where reversal has been shown in patients who had been bald for 25+ years. Estrogen therapy is known to reverse AGA to a high extent too in some cases. So I would say it is definitely reversible we just don't have a clue how to do it.

Benoxaprofen is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, that was marketed under the brand name Oraflex in the U S and as Opren in Europe by Eli Lilly and Company. Lilly suspended sales of Oraflex in 1982 after reports from the British government and the U.S. FDA of adverse effects and deaths linked to the drug.

After the suspension of sales in 1982 the toxic effects which benoxaprofen might have on humans were looked into more closely. The fairly planar compound of benoxaprofen seems to be hepa- and phototoxic in the human body.

With the risk of death, even a small risk, I doubt there will be many research volunteers in an attempt to learn how this drug reverses Male Pattern baldness (in some cases). It's an anti-inflammatory. Corticosteroids are as well and often have a listed side effect of excessive hair growth. But reversing MPB? This drug must have another action that would be of great value to uncover.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

[hellouser]

With the risk of death, even a small risk, I doubt there will be many research volunteers in an attempt to learn how this drug reverses Male Pattern baldness (in some cases). It's an anti-inflammatory. Corticosteroids are as well and often have a listed side effect of excessive hair growth. But reversing MPB? This drug must have another action that would be of great value to uncover.

We could use social parasites like George Bush or Bill O'Reilly as guinea pigs. It'd be the first time they'd contribute something worthwhile to society.

[Swooping]

Benoxaprofen is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, that was marketed under the brand name Oraflex in the U S and as Opren in Europe by Eli Lilly and Company. Lilly suspended sales of Oraflex in 1982 after reports from the British government and the U.S. FDA of adverse effects and deaths linked to the drug.

After the suspension of sales in 1982 the toxic effects which benoxaprofen might have on humans were looked into more closely. The fairly planar compound of benoxaprofen seems to be hepa- and phototoxic in the human body.

With the risk of death, even a small risk, I doubt there will be many research volunteers in an attempt to learn how this drug reverses Male Pattern baldness (in some cases). It's an anti-inflammatory. Corticosteroids are as well and often have a listed side effect of excessive hair growth. But reversing MPB? This drug must have another action that would be of great value to uncover.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

Yes the drug is dangerous, I just gave this as a example that MPB is very well reversible. We just don't have a clue how to do it. Here is the paper; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...498062/?page=1. Also as you see it is very miraculous regrowth that developed under specific conditions. Such cases are extremely rare, but they do show that AGA very well is reversible. Ahh well one day..

[hgs1989]

Yes the drug is dangerous, I just gave this as a example that MPB is very well reversible. We just don't have a clue how to do it. Here is the paper; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...498062/?page=1. Also as you see it is very miraculous regrowth that developed under specific conditions. Such cases are extremely rare, but they do show that AGA very well is reversible. Ahh well one day..

looks like a strong anti inflammatory might do it. scientist should really look into it more. maybe this benoxaprofen could have worked in a topical form. minoxidil had the same effect orally then they looked into it topically. interestingly benoxaprofen treats arthritis and the drug ;at yale they used on the guy that has grown all his hair (alopecia areata opatient); is an arthritis drug. in the case of benoxaprofen(also arthritis drug) it reversed MPB. WOW this looks promising really. someone should look into this more.

[35YrsAfter]

Ambras Syndrome

Yes the drug is dangerous, I just gave this as a example that MPB is very well reversible.

I appreciate you posting that. The fact that MPB can be reversible is very encouraging.

I think it would be worthwhile to study hypertrichosis (AKA Ambras syndrome) which is basically; way above normal hair growth all over the body.. Here is a video of Supatra.

Bless her heart. She is a celebrity at school and she likes the way she looks. I think most people would rather be overly hairy than bald.

Cotsarelis or another researcher should study Supatra and look into the reasons Benoxaprofen can reverse MPB in some instances. This research could make something jump out, connecting the dots with existing research that could be key to a very effective treatment of androgenic alopecia.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

[hellouser]

Cotsarelis or another researcher should study Supatra and look into the reasons Benoxaprofen can reverse MPB in some instances. This research could make something jump out, connecting the dots with existing research that could be key to a very effective treatment of androgenic alopecia.

What? Why? He'd be wasting his time trying to figure out stuff he's clueless about and then expect him to run clinical trials for whatever the process would require for another 10 years.

Screw that.

[Swooping]

I appreciate you posting that. The fact that MPB can be reversible is very encouraging.

I think it would be worthwhile to study hypertrichosis (AKA Ambras syndrome) which is basically; way above normal hair growth all over the body.[ATTACH=CONFIG]34443[/ATTACH]. Here is a video of Supatra.

Bless her heart. She is a celebrity at school and she likes the way she looks. I think most people would rather be overly hairy than bald.

Cotsarelis or another researcher should study Supatra and look into the reasons Benoxaprofen can reverse MPB in some instances. This research could make something jump out, connecting the dots with existing research that could be key to a very effective treatment of androgenic alopecia.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

It's interesting that you note this. I completely agree with you on this. These pathways are extremely interesting too, they hold pretty much the blue-print for everything. A.M christiano holds this scientific approach somewhat through gene analysis and she is making huge steps, too bad she is investigating other hairloss diseases LOL.

Example benoxaproven;



Comes down to AR> COX2 > PGD2 pathway. It is still very a-specific. But they should start connecting the goddamn dots to get a better understanding. As einstein said everything should be as simple, but not simpler.

[hellouser]

It's interesting that you note this. I completely agree with you on this. These pathways are extremely interesting too, they hold pretty much the blue-print for everything. A.M christiano holds this scientific approach somewhat through gene analysis and she is making huge steps, too bad she is investigating other hairloss diseases LOL.

Example benoxaproven;



Comes down to AR> COX2 > PGD2 pathway. It is still very a-specific. But they should start connecting the goddamn dots to get a better understanding. As einstein said everything should be as simple, but not simpler.

Cotsarelis mentions Arachidonic Acid in the 2014 Hair Congress presentation here:

http://youtu.be/TN5H01HGaVI?t=20m6s

Just hit play, I've already queued the relevant part for you.

[Swooping]

Cotsarelis mentions Arachidonic Acid in the 2014 Hair Congress presentation here:

http://youtu.be/TN5H01HGaVI?t=20m6s

Just hit play, I've already queued the relevant part for you.

Thanks I did not know it all starts with arachidonic acid, interesting. I just looked up diagram of parsh etc and it's incorporated too, pretty funny. Check left side bottom arachonic acid > lipoxygenase enzyme. Damn i'm so curious what the future will bring.

[hellouser]

Damn i'm so curious what the future will bring.

Hair.

[cichlidfort]

Original article on that:

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/1205...p00424.html?WT..

Question:

Is the arrector pili muscle required for hair growth? All it does (so far as we know) is contract when we're cold to keep the body warm which causes goosebumps. There's been some talk that the disconnect between the APM and the follicle means irreversible hair loss. But so what? Would it not reconnect itself if the follicle were to return to its normal large size? For instance, hair transplants prove that its capable of connecting itself to the APM, unless the grafts already contain the APM?

Is it any surprise that the connection between the two is lost since the follicle shrinks over time?

I doubt the muscle is required for growth. Hair grows all over our body, including fat. I think that's paranoia HELL lol

[hellouser]

I doubt the muscle is required for growth. Hair grows all over our body, including fat. I think that's paranoia HELL lol

Not all hair is the same though.