Donor Densities & Safe Zone

[534623]

Below – a 33-year-old AGA patient (it’s, of course, NOT damielmillo!!):

10 years before, the guy had a full head of hair and,
of course, not such severe thinning in his donor area …
Transplanting such a guy in his 20s, would have given him only a temporary benefit in the (balding) recipient area.

damielmillo’s original –FULL SIZE- photos:
Side: http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/7/...6/DSCN0460.JPG
Back: http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/7/...6/DSCN0395.JPG

Anyway, when HSI doctors can’t manage to get more than 1600 HST grafts, as in damielmillo’s case,
how many grafts can normal FUE doctors get from damielmillo’s donor area?

Well, tell me something …

[534623]

"Safe" donor areas




SHADED AREAS ARE "SAFE" !

The real "safe" areas are anywhere in between Dr. Unger's "safe zone" (1st pic) and Dr. Alt's "safe zone" (2nd pic) - depending on family history.

[didi]

what if 33 yo guy in the pic harvest (by HST ) every single hair from safe donor zone,

how many grafts would be there, 10k?

[534623]

what if 33 yo guy in the pic harvest (by HST ) every single hair from safe donor zone,

how many grafts would be there, 10k?

Today, and after around 10,000 HST extractions over the years …


… besides a loss of around 2k grafts (20% due to telogen hairs),
the safe zone of the 33-year-old guy would look like as the donor area of the guy on the right side.

SCIENTIFIC BACKGROUND

********************************
Cotsarelis: “We discovered that hair follicle neogenesis following wounding
paralleled embryonic follicle development at the molecular level.
The regenerated hair follicles expressed KRT17, Lef1, alkaline phosphatase,
Wnt10b and Shh (Fig. 1i–o), which is analogous to embryonic follicles.”
********************************

Doing this (wounding) in such a way as Dr. Gho is doing this with HST extractions in the donor area (see pic above), is like making a “reset” or like making a “reboot” of the given number of hair follicle cycles.

[Skywalker]

This is a very interesting and informative thread, it highlights the fact that the safe donor zone for people who continue to NW6+ is potentially a lot smaller than is generally suggested, thanks for posting it IronMan

[534623]

Here are 2 photos of a HST patient:

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7620/img4544b.jpg

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/63/img1784y.jpg

These are BEFORE and AFTER photos with the same hair length (6mm).

But which photo is the BEFORE and which photo is the AFTER photo?

[gc83uk]

I'm back in the chair tomorrow morning, it was originally scheduled for Tuesday, but they brought it forward one day!

[didi]

best of luck gc

you getting covered the remaining bald spot with 1400 grafts so you can pull off buzzed cut.

you still wearing wig or?


what are you going to document this time,

focus in on recipient as donor is pretty much proven, question is how to prove it beyond reasonable doubt


any suggestions

[gc83uk]

Yea didi exactly what you said. I don't think I'll pull off the buzz cut very well because I don't believe the 1400 I'm having will be thick enough over the bald area, so I'll prob shave it to the bone after a couple of weeks.

Incase anyone is wondering I'm having it done over 2 days, so there will be plenty of opportunity to photograph at the half way point.

[didi]

my understanding is you are going to have around 35 grafts/cm2 ,
buzz cut will be ok provided you cut it very short, if its too long it will look a bit thin imo,

try clippers no guard and find your sweet spot


ask them many questions, any breakthroughs on horizon ,etc..and ask what they think abt dr nigam and his claims

[gc83uk]

Yes, but I think I'll need 1600 - 1800 to get 35 per cm2, simply because the area is so large. So I will of course be asking them to do as much as humanly possible over the next two days.

[Kirby_]

Good luck GC, hope it all goes well for you tomorrow.

[JJJJrS]

focus in on recipient as donor is pretty much proven, question is how to prove it beyond reasonable doubt

any suggestions

There's three interesting things we can learn from gc83uk's next procedure that would pretty much settle the debate on donor regeneration:

1. Between day 1 and day 2 of his procedure, gc can take some photos of his donor. That would, hopefully, be the first time we get a clear, zoomed-in before picture. From there, we can observe which grafts HASCI extracts (on day 2) and exactly how they regenerate. For example, if a 3-hair graft is extracted, will it regenerate as a 3-hair graft in the donor. This will basically end the "graft splitting" theory that some people, like Dr. Umar, have suggested.

2. There's a high chance that HASCI will extract some of them same grafts from gc's first procedure. If gc can take a picture of the same areas from his first procedure, for the first time, we may be able to observe the survival rate of follicles which have been extracted multiple times. This could give us an idea of how expanded the donor is with HST.

3. Again, if gc can take a picture of the same areas as his first procedure, we can get a final regeneration rate from Iron_Man's original analysis.

[JJJJrS]

gc, there's a couple of things I'd recommend asking tomorrow and the day after if you get the chance.

First, I know a lot of posters will ask you about the failed extractions issue, so try to note what you can about that.

Also, if you get the chance to talk to Gho personally, maybe ask him about whether his research is leading him to any interesting developments. Obviously there's some things he'll want to keep to himself, but maybe gauge his reaction on that. I've heard speculation of possibly getting more than 2 hairs from 1 with an HST-like procedure in the future, which would be incredible.

[didi]

JJJrs
it will only prove that donor regenerates fully, but

We still need to prove that extracted 3 hair graft will regenerate in donor as 3 and will grow in recipient as 3,
beyond reasonable doubt,


you are assuming if extraced follicle completly regenerates in donor area that same folicle will fully grow in bald area, it could be that just one part grows for whatever reason even though it completly regenerated ,gho dnt extracts whole FU like fue..


people are reporting thin results so im just thinking about all possibilities which could explain why