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  1. #1
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    Default Asking for Advice for Short Term Strategy

    Hi Guys,

    This is my second post and first of all congrats for the great forum. I have been reading for a while and never had much to add because of all the great info.

    I found out I had MPB in April 2012, at the age of 24. I immediately tried to do everything I could about it and in early May started a regimen of Propecia (daily pill) + Minox (mix prepared by my dermatologist with 50% alcohol in it) + 2 anti Seborroic Dermatitis Shampoos (alternating on a daily basis): "Ala Seb Medicated Shampoo, Maximum Strength, 12 fl oz (355 ml)" and "Zinc Shampoo, Dhs 16oz". I also drank a ton of green tea and exercised 3-4 times a week with a fast paced 30 lap swim (been swimming all my life but not as regularly), and some running. I also ate a ton of Vitamin C and bananas, and took Zinc, vitamin C, and Vitamin D supplements.

    I experienced common side effects from Propecia such as watery semen and decreased sexual drive. However these side effects were pretty mild. I was somewhat numb and did not perform as well as I used to when I ran and did sports, but overall a very bearable condition.

    Especially because my regimen seemed to actually work: my dermatologist and I noticed some general strengthening/partial regrowth of the hair but most importantly no itching at all and basically no shedding (I seemed to have even less than the normal 150 hairs per day... I basically wasn't losing any hair in the shower). And wow my nails would grow so fast and my eyes turned to a britgher shade of blue!

    But in October I felt very numb and lazy and decided to quit the Propecia. I had quit the Minox a month before because I couldn't stand how I had to put it on every morning and night. In addition, I ran out of my two shampoos in November and, eversince, have been using "Revita Hair Growth Shampoo" instead. Also, I had a couple situations in which my lower belly was inflamed and I couldn't go to the bathroom for a week, and quit the supplements.

    Soon after quitting my regimen I felt a lot better in the head; my sexual drive is not what it was before but I am a definitely stronger and hornier. But, expectedly, I also began feeling like I was being touched by small "punctures" at the root of the hair, and then the itching came back. My hair is now a lot thinner than it was

    I definitely shed a lot in these past couple months, which made me realize that my regimen was actually working. I am now thinner all over the place. When I first noticed a "hole" in April 2012, I was thinning all over but only had a small hole on my right temple. Now, the hole on the right has increased in size, with an expansion of its size, while the center (i.e. above forehead) and left temple are thinner and headed in the direction of what once was my hole in the right just 8 months ago.

    Now, after all this, what I am here for is to ask a simple question: what advice would you give me for a 2-4 year strategy of containment? I recently decided that I'm going to put all my hopes in Histogen or Aderans or the Costlarelis thing for a release of a good drug within that time frame. I am lucky to have a very solid financial situation and as soon as Histogen comes out in Asia I would be happy to fly over there and get it done, so I basically am trying to keep as much hair as possible to increase my chances of a good outcome whatever route I will take in 2-5 years.

    I am open to hair transplant surgery down the road if nothing works out. I just need my brain for work though as I work in a very fast paced field and cannot make mistakes, so I am very skeptical using Propecia.

    I am trying to come up with a regimen that will somewhat decrease the speed of my thinning, and am lucky enough (at least for now) to have no need to take immediate and heavy action cosmetically as I still look like I have no problem if I just do my hair somewhat short (it actually looks good).

    Anyone in the same situation? I am going back to taking tea, tried the soy and spicy thing (and then found out some say soy is actually bad for MPB!), and am considering some natural DHT blockers although would prefer to stay away form that. I am considering taking propecia 1-2-3 times a week, and am going back to eating more vitamin C although my diet is always good. I would not want to go back to Rogaine as I would eventually get tired of putting it on twice a day and putting up with how dirty my hair will look.

    Thanks so much for bearing with me through the long post and please do not hesitate to share your story and opinion, especially if you are also in a similar situation and are hanging on to your hair in hope of the new technologies to give us a better answer than Fin and what we have now!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Kayman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinning87 View Post
    Hi Guys,

    This is my second post and first of all congrats for the great forum. I have been reading for a while and never had much to add because of all the great info.

    I found out I had MPB in April 2012, at the age of 24. I immediately tried to do everything I could about it and in early May started a regimen of Propecia (daily pill) + Minox (mix prepared by my dermatologist with 50% alcohol in it) + 2 anti Seborroic Dermatitis Shampoos (alternating on a daily basis): "Ala Seb Medicated Shampoo, Maximum Strength, 12 fl oz (355 ml)" and "Zinc Shampoo, Dhs 16oz". I also drank a ton of green tea and exercised 3-4 times a week with a fast paced 30 lap swim (been swimming all my life but not as regularly), and some running. I also ate a ton of Vitamin C and bananas, and took Zinc, vitamin C, and Vitamin D supplements.

    I experienced common side effects from Propecia such as watery semen and decreased sexual drive. However these side effects were pretty mild. I was somewhat numb and did not perform as well as I used to when I ran and did sports, but overall a very bearable condition.

    Especially because my regimen seemed to actually work: my dermatologist and I noticed some general strengthening/partial regrowth of the hair but most importantly no itching at all and basically no shedding (I seemed to have even less than the normal 150 hairs per day... I basically wasn't losing any hair in the shower). And wow my nails would grow so fast and my eyes turned to a britgher shade of blue!

    But in October I felt very numb and lazy and decided to quit the Propecia. I had quit the Minox a month before because I couldn't stand how I had to put it on every morning and night. In addition, I ran out of my two shampoos in November and, eversince, have been using "Revita Hair Growth Shampoo" instead. Also, I had a couple situations in which my lower belly was inflamed and I couldn't go to the bathroom for a week, and quit the supplements.

    Soon after quitting my regimen I felt a lot better in the head; my sexual drive is not what it was before but I am a definitely stronger and hornier. But, expectedly, I also began feeling like I was being touched by small "punctures" at the root of the hair, and then the itching came back. My hair is now a lot thinner than it was

    I definitely shed a lot in these past couple months, which made me realize that my regimen was actually working. I am now thinner all over the place. When I first noticed a "hole" in April 2012, I was thinning all over but only had a small hole on my right temple. Now, the hole on the right has increased in size, with an expansion of its size, while the center (i.e. above forehead) and left temple are thinner and headed in the direction of what once was my hole in the right just 8 months ago.

    Now, after all this, what I am here for is to ask a simple question: what advice would you give me for a 2-4 year strategy of containment? I recently decided that I'm going to put all my hopes in Histogen or Aderans or the Costlarelis thing for a release of a good drug within that time frame. I am lucky to have a very solid financial situation and as soon as Histogen comes out in Asia I would be happy to fly over there and get it done, so I basically am trying to keep as much hair as possible to increase my chances of a good outcome whatever route I will take in 2-5 years.

    I am open to hair transplant surgery down the road if nothing works out. I just need my brain for work though as I work in a very fast paced field and cannot make mistakes, so I am very skeptical using Propecia.

    I am trying to come up with a regimen that will somewhat decrease the speed of my thinning, and am lucky enough (at least for now) to have no need to take immediate and heavy action cosmetically as I still look like I have no problem if I just do my hair somewhat short (it actually looks good).

    Anyone in the same situation? I am going back to taking tea, tried the soy and spicy thing (and then found out some say soy is actually bad for MPB!), and am considering some natural DHT blockers although would prefer to stay away form that. I am considering taking propecia 1-2-3 times a week, and am going back to eating more vitamin C although my diet is always good. I would not want to go back to Rogaine as I would eventually get tired of putting it on twice a day and putting up with how dirty my hair will look.

    Thanks so much for bearing with me through the long post and please do not hesitate to share your story and opinion, especially if you are also in a similar situation and are hanging on to your hair in hope of the new technologies to give us a better answer than Fin and what we have now!
    The only things that will help you retain are propecia or minoxidil, nizoral shampoo will help also but alone it wont do much. Vitamins and tea and soy and spicy etc will do nothing to maintain your hair. It's minoxidil, propecia, nizoral, that is it.
    When you mentioned hair transplant surgery you'll need to take propecia after you have it done because the surrounding hair will also fall out eventually (propecia will slow this down) but ultimately you would need multiple surgeries to replace the hair that goes after your first transplant, very very expensive.
    There isn't really enough known about Histogen as to its potential as a long term solution, does the hair it produces last for 2 years? 5? 10? Do we need to be on propecia to maintain the hair histogen has grown back? Right now its all a bit cloudy.

  3. #3
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    Yeah I understand waiting for Histogen is quite a gamble. But I am not really keen on taking Propecia indefinitely... I don't like how numb and brain fogged I get.

    What do you think about trying Propecia 1-2-3- times per week?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinning87 View Post
    Yeah I understand waiting for Histogen is quite a gamble. But I am not really keen on taking Propecia indefinitely... I don't like how numb and brain fogged I get.

    What do you think about trying Propecia 1-2-3- times per week?
    What are your experiences with it? You seem quite honest about the sides? Are they bad? My inkling in people WILL get sides, it's just to what degree they affect you and how long they last...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    What are your experiences with it? You seem quite honest about the sides? Are they bad? My inkling in people WILL get sides, it's just to what degree they affect you and how long they last...
    I had some immediate sexual side effects that boiled down to watery semen. Then the semen was less watery (but still kind of watery) but my general libido decreased. After 5 months I was generally less horny in general, it's not that I couldn't get it up, I just didn't care so much to do it.... but if I had a girlfriend I don't think I'd be at a point where I can't get it up with her in bed... only our relationship wouldn't be that erotic I guess, I don't know.

    I never got back to the levels of libido I had before (been 2 months off Propecia now) and that kind of scares me.

    I am actually on a six month holiday right now and will start working in July on a very stressful position (a lot of flying all over the US to meet clients, working to meet deadlines, etc.) so being somewhat numb woouldn't affect me so much for now if I had to get back on propecia, but then 6 months later I wouldn't want to be brain fogged again... one time I almost caused a car crash by how numb I was! I think I could try to be on a very stable sleep schedule, go out less on weekends and weeknights, and just party less often right now, and that maybe might make the Fin a lot less problematic.

    For how reckless it may sound, I made a choice to put all my eggs in one basket and hope Histogen will be successful relatively fast (I give it 5 years which I think would still let me keep a decent look if I kept my hair short). I realize it might end up not being an easy product to take, but even if Histogen had to be taken with Propecia, it would be for a much better reason and I would re evaluate the tradeoff between costs and benefits.

    I never thought I'd need to be on Propecia after a HT, that means people who have had one have been on Propecia basically all their life! That would suck.

    I'm going to get it cut very short tomorrow, a 1 on the sides and a 2 on top. If I look good enough I'll just keep it that way until I'm 30 (I think I'll be able to look good until then as my MPB proceeds very slowly).

    Thanks for the replies!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Are you going to give it another go then?

  7. #7
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    I don't know I was hoping to get some input from other people here as to whether if I had any other alternatives to try. I mean I do realize that the natural regimes are pretty much BS, not to mention that it's hard to measure how much DHT blocking you are doing if you just include a lot of DHT blockers in your diet, and you might even cause more blocking than just with Finasteride therefore hurting your self even more.

    I was hoping I could find someone who at least is trying to do the same type of thing to hold on to their hair for a few years to see what comes out.

  8. #8
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    Hey Thinning87,

    Just wanted to start by saying thanks for sharing your story. Similarly to you, I was 24 when I noticed my thinning (~9 months ago). Also, similarly to you, I saw a derm who was very helpful and effectively offered to prescribe me fin, but also advised I wait a little longer to see if I bounce back (basically, confirming it isn't something else). This is all after a round of blood draws that came back normal.

    I'm at the point now where I already called and asked for my derm appointment to be late February, instead of the initial late March (4 month re-visit) because I just had one of those days where your hair bugs the shit out of you. I'm already antsy to call and get it bumped another month closer, which would be in about two weeks. I can say with relative certainty I will start fin or say f**k treatment, and take this hairloss shit head-on. I havn't decided which, which is why I'm here ranting on your thread.

    How much were you paying for fin? I think I'd prefer to go generic and keep costs down. I'm already getting my hair cut shorter and shorter and learning to cope with my thinned hair. On the flip-side, I do have a noticeable amount of new hairs popping up at the hairline. However, they may just be ticking away until death, and not indication that my current hair situation is miraculously getting better. My quality of hair fallen hair isn't much different than the hair upon my head.

    I'm overall just really indecisive on what I want to do. I will commit myself to something in the next 2 months, guaranteed - whether it's saying "f**k it", or beginning my fin journey.

    I guess what I want to know is: do you wish you had just been a bit more patient before starting fin? Did you start a little early and get sick of it because you thought maybe it wasn't necessary? I can understand dropping minox because it's expensive and a pain in the ass, but fin is just a pill you pop and I can't imagine it's that expensive with a prescription. If I do this fin thing, I'm going to do it right (long term, taper on). But a part of me just wants to say I can cope with being a progressively bald 25 year old.

    Thanks in advance for your advice, even though you were initially the one seeking it on this thread. Further, I hope my concerns are apparent in this rant, because I barely formally asked any questions.

    Regards, buddy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinning87 View Post
    I don't know I was hoping to get some input from other people here as to whether if I had any other alternatives to try. I mean I do realize that the natural regimes are pretty much BS, not to mention that it's hard to measure how much DHT blocking you are doing if you just include a lot of DHT blockers in your diet, and you might even cause more blocking than just with Finasteride therefore hurting your self even more.

    I was hoping I could find someone who at least is trying to do the same type of thing to hold on to their hair for a few years to see what comes out.
    I don't think anyone on this forum is going to advise anything other than the Big 3, and with good reason. It's what is scientifically accepted to be occasionally effective. Frankly, everything else is likely a waste of your money and energy. It was nice to read you are taking care of yourself, at least physically. I've been logging 8 hours of sleep a night, exercising almost every single day, and eating extremely healthy. I'm not expecting it to keep me NW 2 until death, but maybe it'll at least slow down the process. Regardless, I'll feel a hell of a lot better along the way.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Kayman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinning87 View Post
    Yeah I understand waiting for Histogen is quite a gamble. But I am not really keen on taking Propecia indefinitely... I don't like how numb and brain fogged I get.

    What do you think about trying Propecia 1-2-3- times per week?
    I took propecia and it worked for about 6 years, then lost effectiveness for me, however when I was taking it I got the brain fog and it made it hard on me to get through college, thankfully I did but my mind often felt cloudy and I would have trouble remembering things on a regular basis and I wouldn't be able to concentrate so well. Looking back, to me, it wasn't worth it. I've been off of it for a few months now and the cloudiness in my mind has started to lift and I feel much more mentally alert these days. You could try propecia on a 1-2-3 times per week basis but I don't think its going to help in that respect it doesn't stay in the system for very long.
    If you're getting brain fog and sexual sides then to me its not worth taking it, I'd rather be alert and sexually driven / healthy with regular semen than to retain a bit of hair. It's good you're staying in shape perhaps just make that the focal point of your physical appearance. I mentioned in an earlier post that I now have been having orthodontic dental work to fix my teeth up and that's my main focal point, that and keeping physically fit. I suppose you could say the confidence I lost with my hair I regained with my smile. I care more about my sexual and mental health than I do about my hair.

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