Come look at my balding head and give me advice :)

[theDawckta]

Hello Everyone,

I think it's time for me to post here because I am unsure of what to do about my rapidly thinning hair. I have trolled around looking for others with similar problems but need to get some pictures up so someone with more experience can help me.

Balding for me was very gradual. My hairline and temples have been creeping back ever since I was about 28. It's gotten to the point where I know if I don't do something now I will not be able to save it and I will be doomed to a bald head for the rest of my life. Seriously, shaving your head all the time seems like it would be a real pain.

My hairline is now rather high, which i am not to concerned about. I never though it looked terrible, shows a little bit of my age (36) and experience but I can still comb it nice and it looks alright. I would just like to try to maintain what I still have, stop the thinning and maybe thicken up what I have a little.

I have been using rogaine foam roughly twice a day for about 2 weeks. It is kind of difficult putting the rogaine on because I have longer hair on top now and getting it through the hairs and to the scalp effectively is proving to be a tough. I do little pea (maybe a little larger) sized dollops all over the top of my head (probably around 10 - 13 of these) and then mush it down trying to get it through the hairs and onto the scalp. After this I run my fingers through my scalp trying to spread it out over my scalp. Whether or not I get it all over is a mystery to me, i think i am but there is no way to be sure I am getting the coverage i need up there. Any advice on application would be welcome. I have also been using Nizoral twice a week.

I seem to be going through a shed right now as after I run my fingers through my hair I have quite a bit of hair in my fingers, more than usual it seems. I know people say that this means it is working but yikes, I don't have that much. I wonder if rogaine is really even right for me. I was hoping it would help to halt the hair loss but I am not sure if that is its purpose. I think I am an NW3 not sure though. Does this matter when choosing a treatment?

I have been entertaining the idea of going on propecia. From what I understand the people who experience side effects are very few. I have never had adverse effects to drugs so that reassures me a little. I live in Lynnwood, Washington. Can anyone tell me the best way to go about seeking out a dermatologist? Maybe someone in my area has experience with one in my area. I also frequent Seattle every day for work and it is kind of my second home. Someone in that area would suffice to. Would just like to avoid a quack as I really don't like or trust doctors much.

Little family history, my father and his brother and their father started balding in high school and I believe lost all their hair by the time they were in college. I was very grateful that this did not happen to me, I think I got very lucky that I kept my hair for as long as i have.
My mother and her mom had very thin hair. My mothers sisters, 3 of them have nice thick hair. 2 out of the 3 brothers on my moms side have very bald heads which I believe also started fairly early. My mothers father had a beautiful full head of thick black hair till the day he died. I wish I would have gotten his head genes. Maybe knowing family history helps you help me, not sure.

I took some pics, the ones where it looks bad are just out of the shower with a light towel off on the hair. The one that doesn't look to bad is after it dried after my rogaine treatment.

Let me know what you think people. Should I be more aggressive and get on propecia immediately, or maybe wait out the rogaine for say 3 months and see if that might be enough.

[rdawg]

Stick with the rogaine for a bit, but yes propecia would be most beneficial to you if you ease on to it.

It's up to you, monitor just the rogaine for a few months if you're uncomfortable about propecia, then see where you are and make a decision from there.

[win200]

Dawckta,

I'm in Seattle and can probably give you some pointers re: local treatment.

Generally, dermatologists are not great at treating hair loss. It's almost never the focus of their practice, so they see it only sporadically and don't tend to see patients for regular follow-ups. They see snapshots and don't develop much expertise. Also, in my experience, they tend to pronounce that everything is telogen effluvium and that it'll decline with time. I recently saw Renata Jenkin at UW Medical Center and Frederick Leaf at Polyclinic--both dermatologists, both for hairloss. They were both warm and capable people, but clearly knew little about hair loss. One of them claimed that Propecia is only effective in 50% of patients (false), that minoxidil only works for 30% of people (false), and that neither can cause an initial shed (false). Also, one of them told me that "people with MPB don't really see shedding--hair just doesn't grow back." That's a preposterous statement.

The people who are the best qualified to examine your hair loss are transplant surgeons. They deal with hair exclusively, day in and day out, and they see the same patients repeatedly, so they're able to track progress. They know hair loss better than any medical professionals.

People on this forum will tell you that IAHRS surgeons are the best, which is true--they've been approved through rigorous vetting by a great consumer advocacy group. However, simply because a surgeon isn't an IAHRS member doesn't mean he's not eminently knowledgeable and qualified. There are no IAHRS surgeons in Washington state. Dr. Steven Gabel, from Portland, does periodic consult days in downtown Seattle, but he won't be back until perhaps February next year. If you want to meander down to Portland, though, he's terrific. Locally, I've consulted with Dr. Brian Goertz, and I eventually had a procedure with Dr. Robert Niedbalski in Tacoma. I'm pleased with his work so far, and he's been incredibly attentive and understanding since the procedure. I've had quite a bit of post-procedure shedding, which has made me a little histrionic, and he's been great at holding my hand.

Even though you're not looking for a transplant (I presume), any of these guys should be happy to do a consult, evaluate your loss, and describe your options. Minoxidil and Nizoral are a great start, but Propecia is probably the best weapon in your potential arsenal. If you go to Dr. Goertz, he has a distinct naturopathic edge to his practice, and he'll recommend a clean diet and a vitamin regimen (in addition to Propecia; he's not averse to pharmaceuticals).

Don't hesitate to send me a private message if you'd like. I don't work for any of these doctors, by the way.

[ejj]

i dont think you need to anything yet ,at most a small number of fue to the central core see how you heal and grow , i would leave it , looks good age appropiate

ejj

[inspects]

Minoxidil and Nizoral are a great start, but Propecia is probably the best weapon in your potential arsenal.

I wholeheartedly agree with Win...Propecia and Rogaine have worked wonders for me.

I had a transplant a few months ago with very few grafts placed in the crown, my doctor said to save that area for later if the Propecia and Rogaine doesn't work. Well it worked, I would give the two medications an A+

You'll hear all kinds of horror stories on this and other forums about people having every side-effect known to man, I think many are psychological, not actually occurring from the medications. People read so many bizarre horror stories, I think they begin to believe them.

I have zero side effects, except thickening and growth.

Best of luck to you...!

-Dale-

[theDawckta]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen, this community is pretty great, lotta support and knowledge.

Thanks for the referal win, i will be contacting Dr. Goertz as you suggested.

Had a quick question about rogaine, should i be applying it on the skin of my temples where there is no hair? Wasn't sure if this would be a lost cause or not.

[BigThinker]

I have to chime in regarding dermatologists.

I went and saw one at the major US research university I attend, and they were beyond competent on hairloss. In the lobby, they had me fill out 3 pages of hairloss-specific questions. I got a blood test that focused on all the major hair loss culprits (that weren't on the blood test my GP had me take). And, I was offered the option to do a biopsy and/or start Propecia that day.

I'm not saying my experience wasn't an anomaly. But, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents out there.

[win200]

I have to chime in regarding dermatologists.

I went and saw one at the major US research university I attend, and they were beyond competent on hairloss. In the lobby, they had me fill out 3 pages of hairloss-specific questions. I got a blood test that focused on all the major hair loss culprits (that weren't on the blood test my GP had me take). And, I was offered the option to do a biopsy and/or start Propecia that day.

I'm not saying my experience wasn't an anomaly. But, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents out there.

That's a good reminder. There are undoubtedly some dermatologists out there that are great on hair loss. I think they're in the minority, but they would be worth searching out.

I have a question: I've heard a lot about folks getting biopsies, but I'm not exactly sure what use they serve for hair loss. What's the benefit? What can they tell you that's useful?

[theDawckta]

I just saw Dr Brian Goertz in Kirkland, Washington and wanted to get some of the things he said to me down in my thread before I lost them.

Seems like a great guy and I got the impression that he cares about his work. He referred to himself as an artist, he said it causes him pain to see a badly done transplant.

I told him a little about what i was doing for my hair loss and we talked about what my options were. Here are a few points he made as we talked, wondering what you guys think of them.

• On minox use. He recommended 2ml application once a night on hair that has not been washed. He justified this by saying the medication will work for 23 hours so twice a day is not necessary.
• He said that fin and minox will only work for the crown or top back of the head, I thought he might be mistaken about that, seems like I have read a few stories on these forums where people have had good results all over their head.
• Recommended a laser comb to increase blood flow for a better environment for growing hair.
• When I asked him about fin side effects he didnt seem to think there was any solid evidence correlating fin use with some of the more extreme side effects stories. I say extreme because he referenced a couple of guys who are suing for depression and ed.

He quoted me a price of 7800 for 1835 grafts. Most would go in the front to bring my hairline down with some getting transplanted behind my front tuff of hair as it gets a little thin right behind there. He damn near talked me into a hair transplant. I know that is what he is trying hard to do, get me to buy something, but I just like how he seemed passionate about what he was doing.

In the end he gave me a scrip for a years worth of fin and sent me on my way, no charge. A pretty good experience, got what I wanted for free, prescription, and walked out knowing a little bit more about hair transplants.

I'm kinda excited, starting the big 3, hopefully I can see some good results.

[win200]

I just saw Dr Brian Goertz in Kirkland, Washington and wanted to get some of the things he said to me down in my thread before I lost them.

Seems like a great guy and I got the impression that he cares about his work. He referred to himself as an artist, he said it causes him pain to see a badly done transplant.

I told him a little about what i was doing for my hair loss and we talked about what my options were. Here are a few points he made as we talked, wondering what you guys think of them.

• On minox use. He recommended 2ml application once a night on hair that has not been washed. He justified this by saying the medication will work for 23 hours so twice a day is not necessary.
• He said that fin and minox will only work for the crown or top back of the head, I thought he might be mistaken about that, seems like I have read a few stories on these forums where people have had good results all over their head.
• Recommended a laser comb to increase blood flow for a better environment for growing hair.
• When I asked him about fin side effects he didnt seem to think there was any solid evidence correlating fin use with some of the more extreme side effects stories. I say extreme because he referenced a couple of guys who are suing for depression and ed.

He quoted me a price of 7800 for 1835 grafts. Most would go in the front to bring my hairline down with some getting transplanted behind my front tuff of hair as it gets a little thin right behind there. He damn near talked me into a hair transplant. I know that is what he is trying hard to do, get me to buy something, but I just like how he seemed passionate about what he was doing.

In the end he gave me a scrip for a years worth of fin and sent me on my way, no charge. A pretty good experience, got what I wanted for free, prescription, and walked out knowing a little bit more about hair transplants.

I'm kinda excited, starting the big 3, hopefully I can see some good results.

Glad you saw Dr. Goertz. He's a very nice guy and I like him personally. Keep in mind, however, that he is not an IAHRS surgeon. That does not mean he doesn't produce excellent work, but he hasn't undergone the extremely thorough vetting process required to admit a doctor to the organization. He's not ENTIRELY correct about Propecia and minoxidil and the hairline area. Merck and whoever patented minoxidil originally can't claim efficacy on their hairline because they didn't undergo testing in those areas. I'd imagine that most surgeons will tell you that while Propecia and minoxidil and MOST effective on the crown/vertex areas, they can definitely help retain some hair in the hairline. Some lucky guys even see some regrowth in that area, and we've seen reliable pictures to that effect on the forum. If you're a receder, you'd still do well to get on the medications.

Did he talk to you about diet and vitamins? He's big on that.

[theDawckta]

We did talk about diet and vitamins as well as what shampoo to get, where to get it cheapest etc. He was big on not eating deli meats and trying to stay organic with your foods. He gave me a sheet with all this info on it.

I am going to take a trip to costco tonight to fill the perscription and buy all my vitamins and such. I hope I can stay on the vitamins as I can see myself not wanting to take trip to get the stuff when it runs out. There was quite a list, hopefully it is ok to just take them all at once in the morning. Here's a list of the vitamins he recommends.

L-Lysine 500mg daily
Vitamin E 200 I.U. 1/day
Saw Palmetto 160mg daily
Multi-Vitamin 1/day
MS 150mg 1/daily
Glucosamine HCL 500mg 3/day
Chondrotin Sulfate 400mg 3/day
Ester-C 1000mg 2/day

[win200]

We did talk about diet and vitamins as well as what shampoo to get, where to get it cheapest etc. He was big on not eating deli meats and trying to stay organic with your foods. He gave me a sheet with all this info on it.

I am going to take a trip to costco tonight to fill the perscription and buy all my vitamins and such. I hope I can stay on the vitamins as I can see myself not wanting to take trip to get the stuff when it runs out. There was quite a list, hopefully it is ok to just take them all at once in the morning. Here's a list of the vitamins he recommends.

L-Lysine 500mg daily
Vitamin E 200 I.U. 1/day
Saw Palmetto 160mg daily
Multi-Vitamin 1/day
MS 150mg 1/daily
Glucosamine HCL 500mg 3/day
Chondrotin Sulfate 400mg 3/day
Ester-C 1000mg 2/day

He gave me the same list. Don't necessarily jump on everything at once; remember, the efficacy of most of those vitamins is HIGHLY debated and HIGHLY circumspect at best as far as hair loss goes. And remember, it's really, really tough to tell if something's having an effect on hair, because there's a huge lag time and it's difficult, if not impossible, to observe reductions in shedding and so on.

Do some research about the vitamins before you buy. It's also not necessarily a good thing to just dump a ton of new supplements onto your body. And do some particular research around Saw Palmetto, which may have DHT-blocking functions. That means it has the potential to cause side effects. If you're also going to start Propecia, I wouldn't start them both simultaneously until you know how you react to Propecia.

Bottom line: the vitamins probably won't hurt. But never leap into a hair loss treatment, even if it's relatively benign. Research, research, research, and take it easy on your body. Plus, buying ALL of these vitamins gets pretty expensive, and it's unlikely that they're going to make much difference at. I gave the list to another, IAHRS-approved surgeon, and he sort of shrugged and said, "They won't hurt, but I highly doubt they'll do a thing."

[theDawckta]

Gotcha, good advice, thanks alto.

Could you answer a question about something he said specifically about minox? When I told him I put it on after getting out of the shower in the morning he said that would make it absorb into the scalp less, i think he was referring to the shower before hand. This is what got him to recommend once a day at night 2ml using liquid minox.

Is this true?

[inspects]

theDawckta

Great to hear.....!!

I would try the Fin and Minox for a year, I'll bet you see some impressive results...!!

Certainly wish I would have jumped on the bandwagon years ago but I didn't...I let it go to the point only a transplant gave me back a full head of hair.

If it doesn't give you positive results, the medication will definitely slow or stop the loss. If Win says he received good results from the clinic I have to believe him, he's not a salesman for the clinic. The price seems fair for the amount of grafts too, it would certainly make you look like a new man if the meds don't help.

Best of luck to you...!

[BigThinker]

Gotcha, good advice, thanks alto.

Could you answer a question about something he said specifically about minox? When I told him I put it on after getting out of the shower in the morning he said that would make it absorb into the scalp less, i think he was referring to the shower before hand. This is what got him to recommend once a day at night 2ml using liquid minox.

Is this true?

Can you comment a little more on the deli meat thing? I only ask because I very seldom eat organic things; I prefer to buy cheaper when it comes to food. I eat sandwiches almost every single day, so if there is a sound reason behind that recommendation, I would be interested in hearing.