Important questions about cell based treatments!

[Desmond84]

As for my gut feeling, I am a bit nervous about all 3 of them:

- Firsly, there haven't been a lot of autologous (your own) cell transplants done to date, so we don't really know if there is really a risk or not. Having said that, since they are simply your own cells, the risks would be quite low. The only things I would be worried about is the potential for cancer. Now we are lucky enough that Aderans has been stuck in Phase 2 for over 5 years, meaning by the time they release their product, some subjects would have been exposed to this treatment for well over 5-8 years. So, if there is a risk it should pop up in some of them (as sad that might be)

- Secondly, Histogen's using around 10 different growth factors. Some we know are safe, some are still to be investigated, so we'll just have to wait and see. Surprisingly, not a single adverse event has been reported in Histogen trials, apart from a case of eczema which is not a big deal

We just have to wait till we get our hands on their published data

[StinkySmurf]

Firsly, there haven't been a lot of autologous (your own) cell transplants done to date, so we don't really know if there is really a risk or not. Having said that, since they are simply your own cells, the risks would be quite low. The only things I would be worried about is the potential for cancer. Now we are lucky enough that Aderans has been stuck in Phase 2 for over 5 years, meaning by the time they release their product, some subjects would have been exposed to this treatment for well over 5-8 years. So, if there is a risk it should pop up in some of them (as sad that might be)

Yes, that is the silver lining to so many phase 2 trials for sure

[StinkySmurf]

P.S. Replicel & Aderans are not exactly hair multiplication in the true sense of the word. They DON"T grow hairs in a lab and transplant it. They simply replicate specific cells that surround the hair follicle and provide the follicle with growth factors and nutrients. These therapies simply rejunevate existing follicles rather than making new ones. (This bit is from their latest update at Mesa btw. They announced: "They don't seem to be creating new follicles but rather rejuvenating existing ones"). Sad, but could be worse right

Actually, I like follicular rejuvenation better than full neogenesis because if I'm only rejuvenating hairs, I don't need to worry about the cosmetic issues that come with a transplant, but if the rejuvenated hairs were only DHT resistant then we would basically have a cure because we would have a way to stop your baldness as soon as it starts.

I've seen you post several times that the new Aderans hairs might be DHT resistant, and I remember that being the rumor back when Intercytex was first planting hairs in mice and also when they did it in Japan recently, but I can't seem to find anything in the recent Aderans info that says the hairs will be DHT resistant.

Do you have any particular source or info that makes you think the hairs will be DHT resistant?

Thanks Demond!

[Desmond84]

Actually, I like follicular rejuvenation better than full neogenesis because if I'm only rejuvenating hairs, I don't need to worry about the cosmetic issues that come with a transplant, but if the rejuvenated hairs were only DHT resistant then we would basically have a cure because we would have a way to stop your baldness as soon as it starts.

I've seen you post several times that the new Aderans hairs might be DHT resistant, and I remember that being the rumor back when Intercytex was first planting hairs in mice and also when they did it in Japan recently, but I can't seem to find anything in the recent Aderans info that says the hairs will be DHT resistant.

Do you have any particular source or info that makes you think the hairs will be DHT resistant?

Thanks Demond!

Well, around 3 months ago I did a lot of research into what are Dermal papillae cells and dermal sheeth cup cells and why are we using them rather than the other 30 different cells around the hair follicles.

What I came up with was fascinating. here's some of those articles:

1) To date, we have only found Androgen receptors on the dermal papillae of hair follicles. Hence, the reason why Aderans most likely decided to use these cells! Here's the link:

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v9.../5612065a.html

2) Dermal papillae cells in balding areas express a much larger number of androgen receptors compared to non-balding areas. Here's a study if you wanna read further:

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.or...156/1/59.short

3) Here's the most AMAZING finding back in late 90's: "Dermal papillae extracted from occipital scalp hair follicles (donor area) lack Androgen receptors! Here's the link:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...706.x/abstract

That's why I think at least in theory, DHT-resistance may be possible!

Cheers

[Desmond84]

2) Dermal papillae cells in balding areas express a much larger number of androgen receptors compared to non-balding areas. Here's a study if you wanna read further:

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.or...156/1/59.short

Btw, these guys compared dermal papillae from your pubic area, body hair, beard, balding areas and non-balding areas of the scalp.

They found that each region expresses different amount of receptors for Androgens. That's why both boys and girls both have pubic hair in their groin area because those dermal papillae express Androgen receptors. The beard dermal papillae only has androgen receptors in males, whereas the donor area of the scalp has no Androgen receptors!


It's a very fascinating read actually!

[Desmond84]

What I can't find out is:

1) How long do Dermal papillae last for before they have to be replaced with new ones?

2) How do Dermal papillae replicate? DO they replicate themselves or does a stem cell create more? If it's the latter, then we need regular injections of Aderans otherwise the stem cells would again produce DHT-sensitive Dermal papillae!

[StinkySmurf]

Btw, these guys compared dermal papillae from your pubic area, body hair, beard, balding areas and non-balding areas of the scalp.

They found that each region expresses different amount of receptors for Androgens. That's why both boys and girls both have pubic hair in their groin area because those dermal papillae express Androgen receptors. The beard dermal papillae only has androgen receptors in males, whereas the donor area of the scalp has no Androgen receptors!


It's a very fascinating read actually!

But since the implanted cells supposedly just wake up dormant follicles, I would think it doesn't matter that the donor area had androgen receptors because how do we know that property gets transferred to the dormant follicle when we wake it back up?

[Desmond84]

But since the implanted cells supposedly just wake up dormant follicles, I would think it doesn't matter that the donor area had androgen receptors because how do we know that property gets transferred to the dormant follicle when we wake it back up?

The health of the hair follicle is directly proportional to the size of dermal papillae. They've found that Dermal papillae in balding areas shrinks to the 1/3 of its original size. This reduces the amount of nutrients and growth factors that DP can provide the hair follicle thereby turning terminal hairs into vellus hairs.

Having brand new DP cells that have no androgen receptors would simply make sure follicles remain in their optimum health!

This is probably why Aderans could only revive follicles rather than regenerate new ones!

[StinkySmurf]

The health of the hair follicle is directly proportional to the size of dermal papillae. They've found that Dermal papillae in balding areas shrinks to the 1/3 of its original size. This reduces the amount of nutrients and growth factors that DP can provide the hair follicle thereby turning terminal hairs into vellus hairs.

Having brand new DP cells that have no androgen receptors would simply make sure follicles remain in their optimum health!

This is probably why Aderans could only revive follicles rather than regenerate new ones!

Ohhhhh!!!!!!! I see. A DP is not a follicle or some type of proto-follicle cell. A DP is something separate that feeds the follicle so the Aderan's solution is to supplement your diminished DP instead of trying to replace the reduced follicle?

Interesting... I would call that a cure if it can get into Phase 3 and it works as you say.

[HARIRI]

Guys, this is a great article about Stem cell transplant. Im sure its going to be very useful. Its been written well by Blake – aka Future_HT_Doc. There are many interesting findings from different top notch doctors about the technique in the end of the article.

Check it out

http://www.***************/hair-tran...gho-procedure/