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  1. #71
    Junior Member dan1938's Avatar
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    nicely explained. I will try to pull up studies that might support and refute your theory, but how are you able to increase your testosterone/androstenedione levels? And how would you be able to sustain it knowing that the hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis will try to get you back to homeostasis?
    what kind of effect would supraphysiological levels have on your kidneys and liver?

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by burtandernie View Post
    Castration stopping MPB is probably the only evidence we have at all so far showing MPB can be completely prevented. Key word being castration prevents MPB if timed properly. It does not regrow hair or possibly even save hair already under the process.
    Not sure there are enough studies to back up post-puberty castration doing nothing.

    But I guess you could take a census from testicular cancer patients and transgender who have their parts removed.

    But I do believe it would stop the loss just from a rule of thumb. Regrow back to NW1, doubtful. But I think even tracy mentioned that her transsexual friends could only get back to a NW2. But that's anecdotal.

    Wasn't taking a jab at you, just adding a bit of input.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by chemhead View Post
    What I mean by "substrate sink" (assuming testosterone is our primary substrate which can be metabolized by 5AR, aromatase, etc.) is: think in terms of a heat sink for electronic components (processor, microprocessor, etc.). Just as a heat sinks draw away heat, a substrate sink is drawing away substrate. The presence of excessive 5AR draws away testosterone from other enzyme metabolism.

    In the most basic sense, hair loss is a direct result of a lack of cellular energy. DHT and estrone have opposing effects on hair growth. DHT signals apoptosis by decreasing adenylate cyclase activity. Estrone does the exact opposite. So, it certainly does help to have less DHT, but having very low DHT doesn't guarantee that you still won't lose hair.

    With regard to castration.. that's a complex issue. Castration will result in cessation of testicular testosterone (obviously), but that doesn't mean the body no longer produces testosterone. The adrenal gland is also able to effectively produce testosterone. While I'm sure castration could certainly cause cessation of hair loss, it wouldn't give someone, who would otherwise go completely bald, a full head of hair. Castration only helps in one regard with hair loss. The decrease in steroid overall means less DHT, but it also means less steroid... meaning the steroids you NEED to maintain normal cellular energy production are in deficit. The age of the castrate will also definitely be a factor in cessation of hair loss if expression of 5AR is related to pubertal increase in androgens. I don't think I've ever heard of a middle-aged castrate that grew back all hair in balding areas ... but then again, it's not something I've looked into.

    I would definitely say that aromatization of testosterone/androstenedione is good for skin and hair and definitely, in excess, bad for every other tissue in the body. Estrogens are really growth hormones. An excess of estrogens unregulated by progesterone is exactly what can cause cancer.

    One thing I know for certain is that testosterone absolutely DOES NOT cause hair loss. If this were true, you would see more bald 15 year olds.. a lot more. Hair loss starts when your body begins producing less testosterone. You can still have hair and high levels of DHT if you also have very high levels of testosterone, such as when in puberty. This is because you still have enough testosterone which can be metabolized to estradiol/estrone. In my own case, I had very red, itchy, and irritated skin (due to DHT) when I was a teenager. I also had very oily skin (due both to DHT and testosterone). As I grew closer toward the onset of hair loss, my skin became less oily and hair started falling out.

    At present, I'm able to increase testosterone/androstenedione to supraphysiological levels, while simultaneously binding 5AR (with finasteride), and cause my skin to become much oilier and brigher and my hair extraordinarily thick.. thicker than when I was a teen. This is not a very safe thing to do, however, because the very high level of testosterone/androstenedione causes a significant increase in estrogens in other tissues.
    I just wanted to say great posts chemhead. I tried to soak it all in and it's a bit overwhelming, but you have some real interesting theories there.

    However, you didn't mention about the CB treatmen in respect to your hypotheses. You mentioned Fin would be succesful only temporary, but I'm interested to see your thoughts about the different treatments, mainly CB, beyond just Fin.

    Thanks.

  4. #74
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    I won't believe any of these drugs or procedures with a lot of promise are going to come out until they come out. It's pretty depressing when you see decade old posts of people who bought into the hype of a medication or procedure that was ineffective or never made it to market.

  5. #75
    Junior Member dan1938's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akai View Post
    I won't believe any of these drugs or procedures with a lot of promise are going to come out until they come out. It's pretty depressing when you see decade old posts of people who bought into the hype of a medication or procedure that was ineffective or never made it to market.
    you have to understand that a treatment may not be commercialized for reasons other than its efficacy. one reason that comes to mind is profitability. If a company doesn't believe that a product will make them any money, why would they spend millions patenting it?so the only choice we have until they come out with something is to take matters in to our own hands. Humans were using herbs and plants in their surroundings for millions of years for different ailments. Some were effective, some weren't. The only thing the pharmaceutical companies are doing is manipulating what is found in nature to work for us. For example, there are many naturally found oils/foods that have anti androgenic, anti-aromatase, anti-estrogenic, etc properties. They were being used well before Finasteride, Letro, nolva, etc came in to our lives.

  6. #76
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    Given the MPB treatment history I wouldnt believe too much in anything until its actually out sitting on a shelve somewhere. Way too many things can change in the huge amount of time before its all said and done. I hope CB ends up making it though because we need some safe topical way to stop androgens which are still the most sure bet we have

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