Taking .05mg finasteride effective with fewer side effects?

[CurlyBird]

As my research into ways to mitigate finasteride side effects continues, I seem to have come across some useful information.

1) Taking .05mg reduces scalp DHT almost as much as anything above that dose. However, serum DHT is ~20% higher at that dose, meaning most likely fewer sides. This is according to one study.

2) DHT counteracts the effects of estrogen in a sort of balancing act. It is not only the amount of hormones that matters, but the RATIO of this hormone to that.

And so wouldn't you know I stumbled upon a link on another forum that is basically summing up exactly what is in my head based on all this repetitive, careful research.

Read the article, and take a look at the graph at the top.

http://www.hairlossbuddha.com/finasteride-sides-how-to-reduce-them/

I am thinking of trying this sort of a plan, whereby I take the .05mg dose dissolved in ethanol perhaps twice a week to start off with, POSSIBLY alongside an aromatase inhibitor. If this research is correct, it could really be what the article refers to as the "sweet spot."

Has anyone ever tried this? What was your experience? I wish we could get a small forum trial of this going and see what the results are in terms of side effects and hair maintenance relative to larger doses.

EDIT: Although the link to the actual study on the page is broken (as are many others leading to the university of Pennsylvania website --- see http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79), here is the FDA's response to the researcher regarding a petition he sent to them regarding using a lower dosage:

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/00/Dec00/121800/pav0001.pdf

Apparently, this professor basically did an analysis of the FDA files on Propecia, but he is in fact a physics professor. Although it is at the university of Pennsylvania, not exactly morons over there. In any case, I figure he is at least as qualified to research this topic as we are, and probably far more so.

[Benis23]

I like the idea, and would be curious to try this myself. I have struggled with finasterides sides but don't want to get off it entirely because of how effective it is.

Can you give more details about how you plan to take the finasteride? Do you purchase the 5 mg pills? How would you measure an amount as small as .05 mg? Why take it with ethanol?

[CurlyBird]

You take it with ethanol because finasteride is soluble in ethanol and it is too hard to cut a single pill into that many pieces. It doesn't matter if you crush up a 1mg or 5mg pill as long as you know what the concentration/mL is. There are instructions on the linked page about how you can go about doing this. Obviously you will need something to measure out volume.

[Dan26]

It sucks that those links are broken, but I'm just gonna copy and paste part of a post I wrote a while back regarding this topic.

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"the percent change of DHT for placebo and .01 mg finasteride were identical and essentially zero within a reasonable statistical estimate. The change dropped by 60 % for a .05 mg dose and stayed that way for all dosages up to 5 mg. Thus a 20 times smaller dose than PROPECIA had the same effect on the DHT."

"Thus the fact that the dosage has been set by the manufacturer at a level far larger than the level measured as necessary for the main function, has not been reported publicly. Yet, the vastly lower dosages, reported in the data submitted to the FDA, would be expected to reduce the chance of side effects."

So, if such a small dosage of Fin has the same inhibiting effects on DHT, why would Merck recommend such a higher dosage??? Especially on a person who is just starting out on it. It makes no sense to me, seems like they are not only condoning, but recommending their consumers to take a USELESS risk.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated!

Article: http://www.physics.upenn.edu/faculty.../propeciafda2/

http://www.physics.upenn.edu/faculty...pcrapmerck.htm

http://www.physics.upenn.edu/faculty.../propeciafda2/

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Now, there were no efficacy tests done for dosages of 0.05mg-0.2mg (not sure why), but there were for 1mg and 0.2mg. However, the sample of participants (100) was small and the differences between the .2 and 1.0 dosages in the first two cases were not apparent and, in the photographic assessment, which showed a larger mean improvement for 1 mg, the values overlapped statistically at the 95% confidence level. ---> 68.7
+/- 17.3 and 54.9 +/- 17.

From the looks of it, Merck/FDA did not care to thoroughly look into the effectiveness of a lower dose. Why? Beats me.

Another excerpt from one of the articles which basically sums up the whole situation nicely.

"I cannot understand why saving money ``cannot be condoned'' when the cost is approximately $1000 per year, not covered by insurance, and the drug must be taken forever in order to preserve any hair growth.
There are no data proving that the lower dosages are ineffective while the physical T to DHT conversion measurements are flat from .05 to 5 mg. Considering the cost to take the drug for the rest of one's life and
that the drug is too expensive for most young men, an intelligent user might want to do a few month trial at lower dosage. Nothing to lose but some fuzz."

I've been reading about hair loss for about a month, I'm no expert, but so far this is what stuck out to me the most. I know for sure if I go on propecia, I'm starting at 0.25mg and taking it days apart to start.

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If you didn't read it all, I guess the most importnat piece of info relating to your thread, is, if you are going to go on a low dosage, do you go for 0.05 or 0.2??? It should have a similar effect right? But atleast we know 0.2 yielded good results, and personnaly i rather take that so i can cut up the pills instead of dissolving them.

[rdawg]

I'm interested in this, for safety reasons, taking 0.5mg sounds like a great idea if it essentially has the same effect.

just one massive problem is I take proscar and it's pretty much impossible to cut the pill that small.

When the patent ends for propecia i'll probably switch over to 0.5.

[Conpecia]

I believe OP is talking about .05, not .5

I'm interested in this too. Even at .25 twice a week I experience sides. Shedding has stabilized at that dosage, though. The less of this I have to take the better.

(Edit)
Just for clarity, my sides have definitely decreased since dropping the dosage. But they aren't gone.

[Dan26]

How quickly did you experience sides? And how bad are they?

[rdawg]

wait, 0.05mg!? how do I get even a propecia pill that small?

Still very interesting idea, anyway of getting the same results but prevent current or future possible sides is a fantastic thing.

[Benis23]

Read through the full article and really like the idea. Do you know anything about the stability of finasteride in ethanol? If you're dissolving 5 mg and taking .05 mg/ day, that would mean that you have the finasteride sitting in ethanol for 100 days. I wonder if it loses efficacy over that period?

[Marshmalo]

I've decied I'm going to start Finastreride 0.5 per day, my hair is thining badly but hopeing that by easing my body into I can avoid side effects.

[CurlyBird]

Read through the full article and really like the idea. Do you know anything about the stability of finasteride in ethanol? If you're dissolving 5 mg and taking .05 mg/ day, that would mean that you have the finasteride sitting in ethanol for 100 days. I wonder if it loses efficacy over that period?

I don't know about its stability. I imagine it is stable since it is soluble. Refrigerating the solution would probably help.

[Conpecia]

How quickly did you experience sides? And how bad are they?

I started fin in 2007 and was fine until this year. I took a month off it and when I started backup I got gynecomastia and epididymitis. Still battling both though the gyno has reduced I think.

[thechamp]

Propecia

I gain weight when I'm on propecia does any one know if combing it with a estrogen blocker would stop this?

[thechamp]

So any one else.

Any one else has weight gain in the tummy reason propecia works so well I go to the gym you guys think any fat burner estrogen blocker would help

[Benis23]

I am actually trying this strategy, but am having some trouble getting the finasteride to dissolve. I am using 151 proof Everclear (which I believe is the highest proof alcohol you can buy in California), but there are still visible undissolved pieces of finasteride in the solution, even after leaving it settle for a day. Anyone else have this problem?