Does finasteride block dht or cause the body to produce less dht?

[the_charger]

Hey, if you don't mind and like doing a little research anyway, would you mind checking to see if they measured baseline estrogen levels before and after dosing? It always seemed to me that if a sizable amount of testosterone is not converted into DHT, it would be free to convert to estrogen. But that's just a guess.

unfortunately it doesnt look like they checked any baseline estrogen levels, just testosterone and DHT. these figures werent mentioned specifically, but they just said that men who started in the study showed no difference in testosterone/DHT levels regardless if they had sexual problems or not.

Maybe men who experience symptoms from finasteride have abnormally high levels of aromatase, and without all that 5-alpha-reductase, testosterone is left with only the excess aromatase converting it into estrogen. High estrogen in men is associated with the same side effects reported on finasteride. That would explain why only some people have symptoms (as most men don't have excess aromatase), and why symptoms only present for those few they do present for when the individual starts on finasteride (because before, 5-alpha-reductase was competing with the excess aromatase).

Anyway, that's just a guess. I'm probably just talkin' out of my ass. It would be interesting to see if that study said anything about estrogen or aromatase levels.

No, this is a good theory.. I unfortunately dont even know much about hormones, but I did read that estrogen levels might go up a bit when taking finasteride because DHT has been lowered. Im not sure if this would cause side effects, but it might! Maybe some guys (2%) just cant handle high estrogen, or maybe their estrogen levels are already high and propecia pushes it up over the edge? I really dont know.. I havent seen any studies that can really explain even why propecia causes side effects.. It would be nice if we could get some input from some medical experts in here!

[chrisis]

What motive do people who describe their experiences on Propecia have, to engage in a propaganda campaign against it?

If you took the time to check my post history on this forum I didn't even start mentioning side effects until I experienced them, and even then I simply came off the drug and patiently waited for them to abate. Now that they seem to be persisting 3 months later, I'm asking more questions and relaying my experiences to others so they can be properly informed. That can in no way be described as propanda, and suggesting so is offensive and insensitive.

I do agree that ultimately it comes down to opinion. You suffered no side effects, and I did - not only temporary but persistent, and undeniably related to taking Propecia. Perhaps we're both biased, but it's hard not to be biased in my position, which you'll probably never relate to.

[Davey Jones]

No, this is a good theory.. I unfortunately dont even know much about hormones, but I did read that estrogen levels might go up a bit when taking finasteride because DHT has been lowered. Im not sure if this would cause side effects, but it might! Maybe some guys (2&#37 just cant handle high estrogen, or maybe their estrogen levels are already high and propecia pushes it up over the edge? I really dont know.. I havent seen any studies that can really explain even why propecia causes side effects.. It would be nice if we could get some input from some medical experts in here!

Yeah, it might be possible that if their estrogen levels were slightly elevated to begin with, they may suffer side effects if the levels were caused to raise higher, past a "break point." That, or if aromatase was elevated to begin with. Or it could simply have to do with ratios (testosterone:estrogen, aromatase:5alpha-reductase, etc.) rather than a particularly high level of anything. Any number of things could be happening, but I would have to guess it has something to do with aromatase/estrogen. I'm surprised they didn't check these things.

Where did you read that they suspected that estrogen levels may go up if DHT was lowered? That would seem to support this idea. I'd like to read that, if you remember where that came from.

I bet what with these new FDA rulings and the few people who suffer being so vocal about it, Merck will want to get this figured out. And hey, guys, let's go easy on people who are suffering. You gotta understand why they may be a little passionate about the subject, even if they number very few. I mean, shouldn't you want this talked about. Wouldn't you like it if they figured this out and 100% of people could be helped by finasteride instead of 98%?

And hey, if they figured it out, you'd get to quit hearing all this whining. There's a plus, right?

[SoothSayer]

I bet what with these new FDA rulings and the few people who suffer being so vocal about it, Merck will want to get this figured out. And hey, guys, let's go easy on people who are suffering. You gotta understand why they may be a little passionate about the subject, even if they number very few. I mean, shouldn't you want this talked about. Wouldn't you like it if they figured this out and 100% of people could be helped by finasteride instead of 98%?

And hey, if they figured it out, you'd get to quit hearing all this whining. There's a plus, right?

So far Merck has responded to the FDA warning by denying any connection between finasteride and persistent erectile dysfunction which is agitating but unsurprising. They will not do so unless the court system/ FDA legally forces them to since they don't really have a culture that cares about patients but is more concentrated on profits. Lawsuits, executive action, or money are really the only few things that motivate such a callous company. They especially would not like to publicly admit anything due to the fact these side effects seem to be permanent since very, very few recover or improve from them, even as far as ten years off the drug.

[the_charger]

So far Merck has responded to the FDA warning by denying any connection between finasteride and persistent erectile dysfunction which is agitating but unsurprising.

I honestly dont give two craps about these big pharma companies, but like we have been arguing there isnt (much) proof in terms of hard evidence that propecia actually causes persistent erectile dysfunction, other than the one PLESS study we are still debating.. but other than that there isnt much, so if Merck doesnt have any proof that it happens, why would they admit it? also they are being sued right now so the second they admit it, they would automatically have lost all these lawsuits right?

its not surprising to me that they are keeping their mouth shut... you are right, these companies dont care about people, they care about profits... I dont even take merck brand propecia so they arent getting any money from me thats for sure.

[fab]

unfortunately it doesnt look like they checked any baseline estrogen levels, just testosterone and DHT. these figures werent mentioned specifically, but they just said that men who started in the study showed no difference in testosterone/DHT levels regardless if they had sexual problems or not.

No, this is a good theory.. I unfortunately dont even know much about hormones, but I did read that estrogen levels might go up a bit when taking finasteride because DHT has been lowered. Im not sure if this would cause side effects, but it might! Maybe some guys (2&#37 just cant handle high estrogen, or maybe their estrogen levels are already high and propecia pushes it up over the edge? I really dont know.. I havent seen any studies that can really explain even why propecia causes side effects.. It would be nice if we could get some input from some medical experts in here!

I have taken Finasteride for years. If this serves any purposes, I got my estradiol levels checked and it's very high, not just a bit. (as you all know estradiol is a dominant estrogen, produced as an active metabolic product of testosterone)

Also, my free T was below range. I don't have the numbers here right now, I'd like to post them

but the thing is this: Estradiol is way up high, much much higher than range, although doctor said it's normal, well, i have ED. Free T is low, but not very low, just below range. Doc said it's ok too but told me to work on this, so what I'm trying now is to p[ut those numbers in the range (optimal), so what i'm doing is changing my eating habits, exercising more. Although I've always exercised, I'm a fit guy, visit gym daily, never took any drugs other than fin. My total prolactin was in range. Not sure why they didn't check free prolactin. My total testosterone was in range. (although when it comes to ED what is really important is free T)

Chrisis, please check your estrogen and/or estradiol (E2).

Does anyone know why this study is not available? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1281461

When you google "estradiol in men", harshly speaking, you will see basically two things, sites that talk about men in steroids and sites that talk about aging men. High estradiol should never be a problem for someone in our age and out of steroids.

More info about estradiol: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2010/...ing-Men_01.htm