The rockstar/hobo diet

[burtandernie]

A set of twins like that though we dont know if they have the same androgen receptor density/layout or any info on all their hormone levels. There are lots of things that could be at play that are not environment related but genetic things out of their control that could account for those hair loss differences.
Not to mention identical twins do not have exactly the same genetic sequences. They can have different numbers of copies of a set of genes which makes them not identical. They even mention some differences are labeled "environment" simply because no one previously knew there are genetic differences even in identical twins.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...not-identical/

[Swooping]

A set of twins like that though we dont know if they have the same androgen receptor density/layout or any info on all their hormone levels. There are lots of things that could be at play that are not environment related but genetic things out of their control that could account for those hair loss differences.
Not to mention identical twins do not have exactly the same genetic sequences. They can have different numbers of copies of a set of genes which makes them not identical. They even mention some differences are labeled "environment" simply because no one previously knew there are genetic differences even in identical twins.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...not-identical/

Damn good stuff, burtandernie. I thought identical twins always share the same DNA sequence. So as hair follicles (and AR expression) develop very early in life that would mean that environmental factors would be accountable to the difference in hair loss in these pictures of the identical twins. Disregard those pictures then indeed, they don't prove that much then I guess.. Very interesting!

[Hubris]

I dislike threads such as these, because they give credence to the idea that MPB is anything but a genetic condition, and that we in some way bear responsibility for our hideous hairlines.

[Thinning@30]

I dislike threads such as these, because they give credence to the idea that MPB is anything but a genetic condition, and that we in some way bear responsibility for our hideous hairlines.

Agreed. Incidentally, not too long ago we had to endure a thread from a guy who somehow determined that "clean" living would reverse baldness. It's obnoxious.

[InBeforeTheCure]

I was watching "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee" with Jerry Seinfeld and Ricky Gervais the other day, and upon noticing a homeless man, the conversation was something like:

Seinfeld: "Look at this guy. Nobody can explain why the homeless have such fabulous hair."
Gervais: "I know. Scientists have been working around the clock for the last 25 years. They've spent billions of dollars but they haven't come up with anything. Like, who commissioned this scientific study?"

Homelessness is the solution to baldness. Clearly.

[Vox]

I believe the key is in the eating pattern.

When they have studied Okinawans (the most long lived population on earth) they found that their calorie intake was about 80 percent of an average person. Asian people in general tend to eat less than westerners and they have very little baldness there.

I find it very difficult to accept that eating patterns can make such a difference in the time span of a human's life. What we are today is very closely related to the eating habits of our ancestors for thousands of years, and at such time scales it is quite possible that diet plays an important role in the development of certain genetic traits. But over some years only? I don't think so.

In fact, I am the living counter-example of your theory. As a rule I eat less than a man of my age (46+). I remember being like that since the time of my puberty, 30 years ago more or less. I don't know why, I guess I am built like that. The consequence (I suppose of this diet pattern?) is to keep even at this age the body form and structure that I had as a young adult, around 18-20. Nothing changed since that time, shirts and trousers still fit me (I found some, forgotten in my parents' house, and I tried them). Nothing, but one: I went bald early in my life ; hair loss starting at teen age and NW7 pattern around or before 30. Still, when I wear today a hat, many people are confused and think that I am a young man around 25 because of my slender physique (also no wrinkles or saggy face either). This is what I was told at least. I wish I could keep my hair but the diet did not help to the least. Of course it did other good which I cannot ignore.

On the other hand, many overweight, even obese, people that I know around my age or older, have most of their hair. So, according to my personal anecdotal observation, it goes the other way around: fat seems to help keeping healthy hair. Of course I do not support this position, it is simply the feeling from what I see around me without keeping any precise statistics. I believe that AGA is mostly a genetic trait, perhaps related to diet but through an obscure chain of ancestors over many generations.

[burtandernie]

If MPB were remotely related to diet though what about all the men in prisons for life eating garbage everyday for their whole lives? Prisons have been around for a long time and the MPB patterns are the same as general population. Also diets have evolved and changed for thousand of years and MPB has been right there through it all. MPB is just as prevalent today as it was hundreds of years ago nothing has really changed. All the athletes, nutritionists, and the like are all bald like anyone else. Really hard for me to buy into diet as any kind of factor with the huge amount of real world evidence that seems to contradict that.
Androgens and genetics for lack of better understanding although future treatments are already bringing many new factors into the picture like wnt pathway, pgd2, and so on.

[Velvetmonkey]

If MPB were remotely related to diet though what about all the men in prisons for life eating garbage everyday for their whole lives? Prisons have been around for a long time and the MPB patterns are the same as general population.

I think you misunderstood. I'm not talking about WHAT people eat (even though what you eat most certainly affects your health too), I'm talking about the FREQUENCY of meals. I'm not sure what the baldness situation is like for the inmate population but I can't think of any group of people that eat more regularly than prisoners. Intermitten fasting means you DON'T eat regularly. So your point is invalid.

Also diets have evolved and changed for thousand of years and MPB has been right there through it all. MPB is just as prevalent today as it was hundreds of years ago nothing has really changed.

This is not true.

“The statistics indicate that the average age that a man starts to experience hair loss is declining and the number of those affected are growing,” Leonora said.

From looking at 10 000 men.

http://www.belgraviacentre.com/blog/....irpjTBHI.dpuf

Secondly, you have no id

Really hard for me to buy into diet as any kind of factor with the huge amount of real world evidence that seems to contradict that.

How many people nowadays follow an intermitten fasting protocol? Not many. All the people you see around you are eating on regular basis I assume. So I don't see how you can dismiss this idea from lack of "real world evidence" when practically no one that you observe is following this eating pattern.

There are how ever two groups of people that "real world evidence" indicate have a better protection against hair loss. Hobos and rockstars. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence for this. There are many threads about this online, several people in this thread have observed the same thing, and as some one mentioned; the notion that hobos have great hair has even found it's way into popular culture now.

The one thing these two groups have in common with each other, the one thing they have in common with our hunter gatherer forefathers too, is meal skipping.

[Velvetmonkey]

If MPB were remotely related to diet though what about all the men in prisons for life eating garbage everyday for their whole lives? Prisons have been around for a long time and the MPB patterns are the same as general population.

I think you misunderstood. I'm not talking about WHAT people eat (even though what you eat most certainly affects your health too), I'm talking about the FREQUENCY of meals. I'm not sure what the baldness situation is like for the inmate population but I can't think of any group of people that eat more regularly than prisoners. Intermitten fasting means you DON'T eat regularly. So your point is invalid.

Also diets have evolved and changed for thousand of years and MPB has been right there through it all. MPB is just as prevalent today as it was hundreds of years ago nothing has really changed.

This is not true.

“The statistics indicate that the average age that a man starts to experience hair loss is declining and the number of those affected are growing,” Leonora said.

From looking at 10 000 men.

I can't link to the survey but google the quote if you want to read it.

Really hard for me to buy into diet as any kind of factor with the huge amount of real world evidence that seems to contradict that.

How many people nowadays follow an intermitten fasting protocol? Not many. All the people you see around you are eating on regular basis I assume. So I don't see how you can dismiss this idea from lack of "real world evidence" when practically no one that you observe is following this eating pattern.

There are how ever two groups of people that "real world evidence" indicate have a better protection against hair loss. Hobos and rockstars. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence for this. There are many threads about this online, several people in this thread have observed the same thing, and as some one mentioned; the notion that hobos have great hair has even found it's way into popular culture now.

The one thing these two groups have in common with each other, the one thing they have in common with our hunter gatherer forefathers too, is meal skipping.

[enigma23]

Prostaglandins have been tied to nutrition in thousands of studies. Although, most that I know about deal with nutritional composition and volume, instead of nutritional frequency. It would not surprise me in the least that nutrition plays -one- part in this very complex, and long-lived, chain of events, as there have been numerous studies looking at intermittent fasting which has a beneficial effect on a whole host of biological markers in humans (the longevity results haven't been tested in humans though, so the life-extending effects should be taken with a grain of salt until then).

Remember everyone, genes are not a predestined outcome, or (for all those wailing and gnashing their teeth) a death sentence; genes merely are the genetic programming that happens in -response- to the environment (internal and external). Recently there have been studies conducted on long-term smokers that have not gotten lung cancer to try to determine what differences exist in their genes, because the carcinogenic input is still the same. Now yes, you share 50% of your genetic code with each parent, (and smaller fractions on up the tree). However, if your environment (external and internal, which includes the nutrients you consume) is different, then your genes -could- be expressed differently. In the case of MPB it could mean progressing faster or slower.