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  1. #1821
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    Nice finds NeedHair Asap. I will pass those on to Dr. Hsu.
    Pretty much all of those abstracts bode very well for this treatment. And as Dr. Hsu has told us, prolonged use of IGF-1 is probably bad for hair cells, but acute use may be great. Unlike a lot of people, I actually agree with follicept that while everything is possible, this actually has great promise. At the very least, it could be a stepping stone in the right direction, as we are now dealing with the most direct chemicals that control hair and cell fate.

    Also, that was a nice way to find backup evidence for what I just wrote to boldy, namely that IGF-1 works against senescence, and that none of what he provided as evidence for follicept not working makes much sense when you're talking about direct causation. IGF-1 does all kinds of things in the body and bloodstream, and works differently in different cells/locations. I really do think that once follicept figures out exactly what the follicle needs and when it needs it, they will develop a good treatment(provided they stay interested). we will see if they hit the nail on the head on the first try

    Also, it's been explained pretty thoroughly to us by trained scientists that e coli IGF is not any different for these purposes than human IGF. It drives me crazy that people on here think they know more than someone who has dedicated their whole life to biology and who is highly qualified. Finding one abstract that says human IGF is different does not mean that the general scientific consensus is such in terms of using it effectively, or that it makes a difference in this situation.

    I have doubts about anything non stem-cell/cloning related working for hair loss at this point purely due to how complex balding is, but I hope I'm proven wrong. it is possible that IGF -1 is not enough on its own, but the complete opposite might be true. Sometimes simplicity is really the key, and a single compound can go a really long way. we have already seen this with the blockage of the androgen receptor. If IGF-1 is as powerful at controlling anagen induction and other stuff as these papers suggest, then other growth factors might simply be unnecessary.

  2. #1822
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keki View Post
    I wonder where are all those studies of igf-1 injected on human and their results, seems everybody is using increlex from ages but 0 proof, only anedoctal stuff from few user in bodybuilder forums or people who actually injected themself chinese stuff but 0 complete study on this argument, and it's very strange, my idea is people actually injected themself with real crap and actually no one on earth know what's the real effect of igf-1 on human scalp at this point

    The studies simply have not been done. No one has shown exactly how these bodybuilders of hair loss forum guys injected stuff or for how long or with what source materials, so it doesn't really mean much. Its also quite different to put IGF into your bloodstream than to spread it on your skin and have it seep into the follicles. I can't imagine its easy to inject anything into the scalp in a way that efficiently reaches follicles, though i could be wrong about that. anyway IGF-1 and other growth factors are not safe things to be injecting into your body at concentrations that can get enough of it to the HF, so its understandable that human studies have not been done. this is why follicept is doing something quite different.

  3. #1823
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananana View Post
    @devon,

    what happened to mice 3 months post treatment? You didnt show that data in the presentation.
    Just curious.

    tnx and good luck!
    That mice are now following the Motorhead's Tour 2015.

  4. #1824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelillos View Post
    That mice are now following the Motorhead's Tour 2015.
    Probably a sarcastic comment, but can't say I understand what you meant.

    I meant - did they continue to grow hair/fur or not?

    tnx

  5. #1825
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    1. Wanting these guys to do out-of-house testing is obviously a legitimate desire.

    The issue is this would cost $50k-$1M to have a contract research organization (CRO) to run a massive trial using follicept....

    Obviously, from their perspective, if they can test it on a group of friends and family first... it saves them from spending a year or more and $50k-$1M testing something they have no clue will work. I just don't think we can hold follicept (as a company, not a product) up to the same standards as a billion dollar pharmaceutical company with a multi-million budget research department.

    We should hold their product to the same standard as the billion dollar company's... but we need to be cognizant of that fact they just can't go to market in the same fashion as the billion dollar company can.... as a result we have to be extra skeptical (I repeat: skeptical. Not rude, nasty, speculative, defamatory, incendiary, etc.).

    If they come back with good photos, and things look seemingly good enough, I'm happy to give it a try (and pay for it). I'll be pretty skeptical, so hopefully the photos are decent enough.

    Anybody who is still skeptical, can wait. Forum trials just don't ever work. Look at chlorine dioxide. That guy gave out 40 bottles (mostly confirmed by 40 posters), then maybe 3-4 actually posted results (that sucked). And honestly, if two random people online post that they got not results in a forum trial.... it doesn't mean that much to me. It's obviously not promising, but it isn't damning-- in my opinion.

    Same with forum people injecting IGF-1... what was their protocol? To me, there is a good chance they probably f***d it up somewhere in the process, or didn't do it enough or any number of things.... I just don't get why people thinking one or two amateur anonymous forum guys getting no results (whether igf-1, CB, RU, etc. etc. etc.) automatically means the substance should be written off..... to me that is strange logic.


    2. My sense is that devon and crew don't want to spend a ton of time/money on follicept if it doesn't actually beat minox (and beat it by a relatively significant margin)


    3. They are doing trials now. And if the evidence they come back with sucks, I'm sure they'll be berated thoroughly... I think we can all agree with that. So, I don't see much reason (i.e. need) for our white knight (i.e. our lord and savior) Arashi... who doesn't notice that Devon is giving him as many answers as he can, and being as polite in the dialogue as possible whilst Arashi is a dickhead.

  6. #1826
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananana View Post
    Probably a sarcastic comment, but can't say I understand what you meant.

    I meant - did they continue to grow hair/fur or not?

    tnx
    It's an interesting question; I'd like to know too.

  7. #1827
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    Whoops.. Boldy just crushed follicept there. Great information. It is always a pleasure to read your posts.

  8. #1828
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    The use of IGF-1 in the body can result in dangerous adverse reactions. I wonder how great the chances are of getting it into the bloodstream by using Follicept, and how it could affect our health.

    I understand IGF-1 is prohibited for professional athletes. They should probably not use Follicept.

  9. #1829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Link View Post
    The use of IGF-1 in the body can result in dangerous adverse reactions. I wonder how great the chances are of getting it into the bloodstream by using Follicept, and how it could affect our health.

    I understand IGF-1 is prohibited for professional athletes. They should probably not use Follicept.
    this was already adressed multiple times. the igf1 dose is so low (thus considered cosmetical) that even if the whole dose would go systemic (which it doesn't) it wouldn't be harmful at all. hence there will be no safety issues

  10. #1830
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    Thank you. I e-mailed the company and they told me the same.

    However, professional athletes should be careful with Follicept. Even the slightest trace of IGF-1 in their bloodstream might be enough for them to be banned from their competition.

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