I think I've hacked it

[youngin]

That's just a harsh allergic reaction, of course it can happen.

But wrinkles? Show me one scientific study that proves minoxidil gives wrinkles or even dark circles?

Don't bother, you won't find any.

I already gave you multiple studies that correlate that in another thread as well as heart rate changes. It doesn't matter though, you are the biggest idiot I've ever seen on any forum perhaps. You are just here to bring negativity to everything with your stupidity.

[fred970]

lol. why on earth should there be studies out there which show the negative side effects of minox, and especially wrinkles and dark circles? of course we won't find them. but there are hundrets of reports/opinions/posts and pics on the internet, and if you just don't want to believe they exist, then be it so. everyone has the right to be ignorant and just believe what they want.

Because that's a reliable source of information. You're, everyone has the right to believe in BS. Just don't spread misinformation on the forum, that's all.

[Steffyamola]

what the guy wrote is interesting my dad had cancer of prostate and was on casodex before xtandi never had hair loss when he took xtandi he lost all his body hair neck down his skin became so sensitive and dry but he kept his head of hair and everyday he was so tired

[sdsurfin]

what the guy wrote is interesting my dad had cancer of prostate and was on casodex before xtandi never had hair loss when he took xtandi he lost all his body hair neck down his skin became so sensitive and dry but he kept his head of hair and everyday he was so tired

I don't know if this guy is out to eventually sell something or not, and a lot of what he writes is maybe true, but there are tons of broad and unproven statements in his argument against why other approaches will not work. People like Cotsarellis are hugely informed about what compounds accelerate hair loss, and the fact that they are confident that PGD2 is a key is not independent of other knowledge about other cytokines. This guy writes as if its all or nothing. the fat is, if histogen or SM can stimulate growth enough and negate enough the chains set in place by the androgen receptor, then they can possibly be good enough to halt hair loss and cause some regrowth, which is enough for a lot of people. Also, if they key is the androgen receptor then it doesn't negate replicel's approach to replacing follicle cells with androgen insensitive ones. Also, just because DHT and possibly other cytokines activate the androgen receptor, doesnt mean that the condition cannot be treated downstream of that reaction.

So I agree, no "cure" will come until you can genetically modify the androgen receptor's sensitivity OR replace our HF cells with dofferent ones (which is what replicel and other companies are working on, and in my opinion getting pretty close to achieving), but doing something like histogen is doing and activating the stem cells enough might be just as good and valid a long term treatment as whatever this dude is proposing, which seems much less safe and much less realistic. The androgen receptor is taking the function out of the stem cells, so if you can boost those stem cells (and I disagree that researchers know very little about the signals, they actually know quite a lot, just listen to gail naughtons presentation on the factors that histogen works on)then why couldnt you override whatever the AR is doing?

I'm not saying this isn't interesting and useful, I'm just saying you make some really sweeping statements and have little proof that what you tried is actually true or effective.



PS minoxidil can def give you dark circles under your eyes. Every time i use it for any period of time this happens to me, and they go away when i stop the minox. can't be a coincidence, ive tried it too many times, and its very noticeable. I have no idea about the wrinkles, but just cause a pharma company says theres no such side doesnt mean thats true. trials are flawed, they dont always look for such things and sometimes arent long enough. just look at propecia. pretty sure the sides are way more common and severe than pharma claims, at least from my friends' experiences.

[sdsurfin]

Also, this guy proclaiming that he's leaving the forum and then saying that he's gonna go make it work, etc smells pretty weird to me. If you're so confident about the potential in this, why don't you do your utmost to share it with researchers like cotsarellis and not with random internet people? If this is so valuable then please, share it with the scientific community and the teams that are working to develop drugs. it doesnt do anybody any good to share it with young and mostly clueless forum members. If you can get a statement from christiano or cotsarellis or anyone who studies hairloss addressing your claims and your theory, then it would have much more weight. I dont buy this being scared cause its not legal, you dont have to divulge your identity to anyone, on here or elsewhere. write an anonymous email to a respected researcher from an anonymous account and let's see what they have to say....

[Swooping]

I think we shouldnt mess around with p53 too much because it actually repairs DNA damage and we should be focusing on the detrimental byproducts of p53 which are ironically easier to tackle, like DKK1 with oleuropein.

I've decided to post a an analysis on Estrogens actions on hair in my thread seeing as this thread is becoming a flame war and we're deviating from the main topic. I think youre on to something and we could potentially exploit the estrogen pathway with readily available/easily acquired drugs to achieve the same regrowth as those transgender cases.

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/thread...l=1#post224562

Ok thanks. Will reply later there . Indeed, P53 has a multi-faceted role, not everything of the pathway is known yet too! Modulation of these pathways is obviously way too dangerous too. Anyway imo the picture is really getting more and more clear and would explain everything that correlates with AGA. Apoptosis? Cell cycle arrest? Senescence? ROS? DNA damage? Eventually we will get to know.

Difference microRNA expression balding vs non-balding dermal papilla cells;



Cell cycle;

[Swooping]

Couldn't edit last message wanted to add this;

P53 "guardian of the genome"

RESULTS: The frontal bald area of patients showed significantly higher levels of X-ray Cross Complementing-1 (XRCC1; P<0.001) and p53 (P<0.001) expression when compared with occipital hairy area of patients and frontal area of controls

Molecular sensors respond to DNA damage signals by activating a sequence of events that leads to the execution of cellular stress responses (Levine 1997; Giono and Manfredi 2006; Laptenko and Prives 2006).
In mammalian cells, the tumor suppressor p53 is a master regulator of stress response pathways such as cell cycle checkpoints, DNA repair, senescence, and apoptosis

p53 is an evolutionarily ancient coordinator of metazoan stress responses.

Senescence (this would explain the downstream inflammatory response);

[eukaliptas]

Sorry for my english. I registered to this forum just to say thank you, thank you IGF11 for your thoughts he has nothing to sell. I litteraly tried everything Proscar, Minoxidil, Dutasteride, even Spironolactone. First three did nothing, until i used the last one. I had regrowth, my scalp stoped itching and stoped producing excesive sebum, hair started getting thicker and thicker, i really felt great. But... I couldnt do cardio, i gained some extra weight and i think something happened to my nipples. And one day i had to quit spironolactone because after 5 or 6 months of usage in the middle of the night i woke up to such terrible testicular pain that i couldnt handle it anymore. It was litterally shutting down my ba**s. If i used it for one or two weeks more i probably ended being infertile. It was kids in the future and probably baldness or being infertile for the rest of my life so i quit. I read tons of research about spiro and i know how it works i understand the concept but i cant translate it to you because of my limited english. If i am correct 1. spiro bind to Androgen Receptors (if i am correct it prevents interaction with DHT and then it prevents all that messed up stuff happening in our Hair Follicle), 2. it catches all floating DHT in blood and 3. lastly it tries to shut down DHT Factory in the b***s.

So what i want to say. After reading tons of research my idea is that DHT trigger Androgen Receptor it all starts here. And then normaly working hair follicle goes out of order because of genetical abnormalities (until we hit puberty everybody have great hair). It start to overproduce some elements (some pathways randomly activate some dont), also it shutdown some element production which then we lack also it starts overproducing shi*load sebum and we have broken Hair Follicle. So you have malfunctioning HF, infections and other stuf can happen in your scalp , what your body do now? It triggers Imune System to attack hair follicle, to kill it. Where does that terrible head itch come from? My idea its your body killing your own hair. Attack after attack, day after day it attacks your hair to minaturize and enter dormant phase. After your body makes that happen i feel no itch in those places i have no hair anymore.
After only one month of spiro, everything normalized in my scalp no ithch, no hair falling it even started growing small black hair (not all hair i lost but small amount) in my temple also sebum overproduction stoped. I cant understand why cant some scientist examine what happens in your scalp while on spiro i think it could give so answers.
IGF11 said that he lost all what he gained, my idea is that even after all those years your imune system is still in attack mode, you quit your treatment Imune system attacks it and kills it. If we want to stop hair minutirazation we have to suppress our imune system, if we want to completely prevent MPB we have to address Androgen receptor. In earlier reply to thread one member mentioned immune suppressants, other mentioned Minutirized Human Hair Transplanted to Mice with no Imune System and those hair growing increadibly fast, Desmond when he visited hair loss congress which we all funded mentioned Singapore Scientists Group That specialize in approach which they try to affect Androgen Receptor (this group from singapore is in my head from the day1 i read that thread). So there is hope. Again sorry for my english

[FGF11]

Do you really think they care? I mean the researchers.

Do you even know how scientific grants work. You write a whole grant, based on your previous publications, and then you show some preliminary data, and then you compete with a bunch of other people to get a grant that can possibly support you, may be, for the next 5 years or so.

Do you know, scientists have to use bunch of previous money to produce that preliminary data, in the first place.

Do you think I haven't tried to contact Dr. Cotsarelis? I think the guy is smart, but they are hugely restricted on what they can do and what they can’t do.

Do you know we live in a world of paradoxes?

Do you have any idea you have to wait at least four months until your protocol get accepted so you could do a tiny experiment on mice? Then we kill and eat at millions of millions of animals, much smarter than mice every year to eat and then die of hear attack.

Do you know if today, you convince the whole world that silencing AR is way more effective than Finasteride and Minoxidil and Way more SAFE, and it works, you have to wait at least five to six years for it to hit the market, if EVER, because it will be expensive and not practical.

Do you know I’m doubtful if anyone completely understood what I’ve written here.

Do you think I’m less knowledgable than them, the researchers. Just because I wrote my findings here. Do you think if I could have started my START-UP, I wouldn’t have done so.

No, it’s ****ing hard.

Time will convince people that I’ve been right or not. Or my next set of experiments. I was hoping I could find some knowledgeable people here, so I could keep in contact with them, and start doing something together.

Do you think when I said, I’m to going make it work, it's easy. Do you really know hard is it to really do so?

I’m trying to culture E.Coli cells to make me enough amount of siRNA’s so I could test my hypothesis. Do you know how much reading I have done, and how planning I have done. Do you know how much work does that take. How much testing? Do you know how much of my own money I’m putting on this.

Do you know about ego? and how it has killed so many advancements in the past.

Have you heard about United Therapeutics? the story behind its founder. GO READ IT.

Do you know the first people who found adult stem cells, have told the news SO MANY TIMES, that if some one came to them and propose to them iPSC cells, they would have never give the guy any money to do his experiments in the first place. iPSC cells have changed the world.

SCIENTISTS ARE FULL OF EGO.

Do you think if I could test my finding with experiments, I couldn't have done so.

Gosh jeez, some people here, don’t know the difference between a molecule and a cell phone.

Do you think I care about other people? do you think they care about what I’ve written here? It’s a ****ing messed up world, do something. Don’t sit on your butt, man.

Sooner or later, someone will try what I’ve done here, the pharma and it will be known if it works or not. But I can’t wait for that time to come. Because science is slow, and biotech is greedy.

I believe in what I’ve done, based on what I’ve seen, it may end up NOT working, but at least in my spare time I have actually tried to impact my life, and MAY BE those around me.

I don’t have anything to sell, god, these people.

Mark Zuckerberg, gives all his money to charity and just read the comments. Man, the world is SO messed up.

No reason, scientists don’t care to contact people directly, and ignore them like they are a plague. Watch the documentary life according to sam, watch the movie Lorenzo Oil, do you know how much criticism these people got. These are all true stories.

I'm just trying to my best people, and to me it makes sense more and more every day.

[Hemo]

That's all well and good...but don't you think, if you have pictures (as you claim you do), you would convince scientists, the public, and/or donors more easily if you showed that proof?