Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

[Nilli57211]

forget about it, nothing will give hair in a bald scalp. It's like growing a plant out of a rock, the tissue for hair survival is DEAD.

Not necessarily - research has shown that follicles in bald scalps are still alive decades later. Miniaturized but alive. I'm sure this would be more easily successful on someone with only thinning rather than balding, but you never know - it could be just a matter of dosage. Someone with a bald scalp could just need larger amounts injected.

[Pate]

So Histogen will be more likely to work on people with thinning rather than bald spots - that's pretty much the case even with Rogaine or anything else out there. I personally hope it will be able to give everyone back all their hair, but that may be too optimistic....

Pretty much. Replicel definitely did grow new follicles from scratch in mice, which was an amazing achievement, especially since there was no supporting skin structure there like sebaceous glands and blood supply. But currently there is probably no realistic prospect of growing new follicles en masse in humans, ie a baldness cure. There are three parts to treating baldness:

1. Protecting healthy follicles from becoming damaged
2. Rejuvenating damaged follicles
3. Growing new follicles in skin where the original follicles have been damaged beyond repair

So far medical science is still struggling with #1, with only one drug approved for it and that drug being far from ideal. CB-03-01 will hopefully improve on it with no sides. Drug therapy has proven almost totally ineffective at #2 except in the early stages. Even castration in males doesn't change those vellus hairs back to terminal, suggesting that whatever the androgens trigger in the follicle is permanent. Histogen is probably going to be best for #2.

#3 is still a pipe dream I'm afraid. Aderans may be able to grow some but haven't been able to regrow a full head of hair (or anything close so far). Replicel, well, we all know how that went. Let's just say they are a long way away from reproducing the effect in their promotional video.

Anyway, if they really are able to re-create the embryonic environment in the scalp, it may actually be possible that they can form entirely new follicles

It's a possibility. But I don't think they necessarily create the embryonic environment in the scalp. They create the embryonic environment in their bioreactor and get the cells to start pumping out growth factors, which they collect up and then inject.

I honestly believe somebody will perfect a viable baldness cure through the Replicel/Aderans method eventually. I just don't think I will be this side of 50 when it happens (which is 20 years away).

[Maradona]

Pretty much. Replicel definitely did grow new follicles from scratch in mice, which was an amazing achievement, especially since there was no supporting skin structure there like sebaceous glands and blood supply. But currently there is probably no realistic prospect of growing new follicles en masse in humans, ie a baldness cure. There are three parts to treating baldness:

1. Protecting healthy follicles from becoming damaged
2. Rejuvenating damaged follicles
3. Growing new follicles in skin where the original follicles have been damaged beyond repair

So far medical science is still struggling with #1, with only one drug approved for it and that drug being far from ideal. CB-03-01 will hopefully improve on it with no sides. Drug therapy has proven almost totally ineffective at #2 except in the early stages. Even castration in males doesn't change those vellus hairs back to terminal, suggesting that whatever the androgens trigger in the follicle is permanent. Histogen is probably going to be best for #2.

#3 is still a pipe dream I'm afraid. Aderans may be able to grow some but haven't been able to regrow a full head of hair (or anything close so far). Replicel, well, we all know how that went. Let's just say they are a long way away from reproducing the effect in their promotional video.



It's a possibility. But I don't think they necessarily create the embryonic environment in the scalp. They create the embryonic environment in their bioreactor and get the cells to start pumping out growth factors, which they collect up and then inject.

I honestly believe somebody will perfect a viable baldness cure through the Replicel/Aderans method eventually. I just don't think I will be this side of 50 when it happens (which is 20 years away).

You're missing the key here: MPB, our tissue is designed to kill hair follicles when the gene activates due to DHT. Easy to grow hair on non-MPB areas, jahoda did it long ago. All companies aim for 2 for two reasons: better results, give the appearance of new hair follicles and attract investors. The only company brave enough to try it out on slick bald scalp is ARI.

They've all been incosistent replicel, ARI, intercytex and Gho who started HM a long long time ago. There is in fact a point of no return even if the hair follicles is miniaturized, really miniaturized.

[Pate]

I think i'll be a norwood 7 when CB 03 01 comes out. Norwood 4 optimistically, but i doubt it.

Histogen , if succesful, might be available sooner than we think .

CB Acne vehicle won't do anything, people have been using CB with better vehicles and NOTHING. CB for mpb hasn't even started trials .

So Histogen it is, at least for now ...

Well you can get CB right now. If you're willing to pay the price for it and mix it yourself. Or RU. Similar stuff.

But if you're talking about getting it on the open market, I think it all comes down to effectiveness for CB. If it achieves what it sets out to do (stop further hair loss, regrow maybe a little bit, no systemic sides) then they can push it through trials and launch it while Histogen might be doing their best Aderans impression and re-running Phase II for five years straight.

CB could easily beat HSC to market, scary as the thought is.

But it's stupid arguing about it anyway. They are both at least 2 years away and if/when one comes to market we will probably all be using it, no matter what it is!

[Pate]

[QUOTE=Maradona;63002] You're missing the key here: MPB, our tissue is designed to kill hair follicles when the gene activates due to DHT.

I don't think I'm missing the key. You have a good point about the extra-toxic environment in balding scalp. But it doesn't mean #2 and #3 are a waste of time. Just adds an extra level of complexity. In this case it might mean using CB-03-01 and HSC together, or something like that.

There is in fact a point of no return even if the hair follicles is miniaturized, really miniaturized.

I agree. I don't think HSC will work on NW7 slick bald scalp. Not only are the follicles too far gone but the blood supply and other supporting structures in the skin have atrophied away. But I think as long as the follicle is still producing a vellus hair that breaks the surface of the skin, there is hope.

At least, I bloody well hope there is hope.

[Maradona]

[QUOTE=Pate;63004]

You're missing the key here: MPB, our tissue is designed to kill hair follicles when the gene activates due to DHT.

I don't think I'm missing the key. You have a good point about the extra-toxic environment in balding scalp. But it doesn't mean #2 and #3 are a waste of time. Just adds an extra level of complexity. In this case it might mean using CB-03-01 and HSC together, or something like that.




I agree. I don't think HSC will work on NW7 slick bald scalp. Not only are the follicles too far gone but the blood supply and other supporting structures in the skin have atrophied away. But I think as long as the follicle is still producing a vellus hair that breaks the surface of the skin, there is hope.

At least, I bloody well hope there is hope.

I agree with you man. This is why I'm thinking on throwing in .5mg of fin till HSC or any other company come to market. Just to keep these follicles under control you know?

But I am damned scared of permanent sides.

[yeahyeahyeah]

[QUOTE=Maradona;63005]

I agree with you man. This is why I'm thinking on throwing in .5mg of fin till HSC or any other company come to market. Just to keep these follicles under control you know?

But I am damned scared of permanent sides.

If you are not thinning right now, but just receeding. (mature hairline?)

I very much doubt you will be a NW4 or NW7 in 2 years.

The guys with the aggressive loss are normally in their late teens and are diffuse thinning.

[jpm]

I do enjoy reading your posts Pate. They are very informative and you sound quite clued up!

I think that if/when HSC is released it will be a major step forward. On most younger guys the hair follicle is still there and not been out of commission for too long. Therefore I think that HSC would still be able to grow hairs out of these follicles.

If you have lost your hair for a long time and the follicles are ''dead'' then HSC would work very well as an adjunct treatment to a HT.

I'm just hoping that sometime soon Histogen do trials on the whole scalp so we can see how it works in certain areas. Crown, temples, top of head etc

[BoSox]

When will we have another interview from Histogen?

[UK_]

[QUOTE=yeahyeahyeah;63008]

If you are not thinning right now, but just receeding. (mature hairline?)

I very much doubt you will be a NW4 or NW7 in 2 years.

The guys with the aggressive loss are normally in their late teens and are diffuse thinning.

yeh - thing is so many times a mature hairline is confused with balding - it really isnt the same thing, when you go bald you're thinning very early on & shedding loads + even if they did cure hair loss I wouldnt want a juvenile hairline that would look stupid if you're in your mid - late 30's, it's the thinning crown & SIGNIFICANT frontal recession that's the issue.

[yeahyeahyeah]

yeh - thing is so many times a mature hairline is confused with balding - it really isnt the same thing, when you go bald you're thinning very early on & shedding loads + even if they did cure hair loss I wouldnt want a juvenile hairline that would look stupid if you're in your mid - late 30's, it's the thinning crown & SIGNIFICANT frontal recession that's the issue.

How much hair do you guys shed with aggressive loss?

[CVAZBAR]

According to Spencer, Dr Z has some exciting news. Hopefully he gets the interview soon.

[Mojo Risin]

Surprise, now that they know Replicel's results are shit, they have ''exciting'' news to announce ...

[yeahyeahyeah]

According to Spencer, Dr Z has some exciting news. Hopefully he gets the interview soon.

When will that be?

[thechamp]

.5 of fin

I can only Handel fin once a week I gain so much weight if I take any more how often are you going to be taking the fin?