follicept - what's this?

[Keki]

The great sdsurfin who calls himself "smart". That says enough. Indeed he lost his mind, but did he ever have one is my question? It's cringe worthy to see sdsurfin talk. Did you learn that all from Dr. Hsu what you just told in your last two posts? You make Follicept look even more bad to be honest. You literally have no clue what you are talking about. Also you have a tendency to promise much to the people here, but when you are asked for evidence you never show it.

Stop dreaming guys. This isn't going to come close to minoxidil. I'll give you that 100%. Every hair biologist would laugh at the thought that this is going to even approach minoxidil in efficiency. This isn't even to grow you cosmetically valuable hair.





LOL. Just no comment.

LOL said by someone who don't even read the source of what he post, who think he can teach real doc how injection works

You need a therapist, a good one too, you never understood and will never understand nothing about aga, you can impress some noob ignorant ineducated kid here with some link to korean shop igf seller and publications about igf blood level, the rest of us will just have a good laught rotfl

[Swooping]

LOL said by someone who don't even read the source of what he post, who think he can teach real doc how injection works

You need a therapist, a good one too, you never understood and will never understand nothing about aga, you can impress some noob ignorant ineducated kid here with some link to korean shop igf seller and publications about igf blood level, the rest of us will just have a good laught rotfl

A very strong ad hominem to make me feel what, insecure? Oh boy, guys like you are the ones who make my day. Little do you know that with such statements you make yourself even make more ridicilous and discredit follicept their team/product even more.

Chapeau!

By the way, do you know what the beauty is of it all? Time will show who has it on the right end. Currently I have that, until it's proven otherwise by independent evidence. That's how science works, sorry. We'll see who will have the last laugh "Keki".

[rdas88]

Gentlemen,

I’ve been a lurker on this forum and I wanted to share some details from a medical textbook that I was going through last day in preparation for my upcoming exams. I’m an M.D. student at the University of Toronto in Ontario, Canada. My area of intended specialization is in Dermatology.

Coincidentally, I happened to come upon a section on Genetics and IGF-1 in my exam review readings. The primary author of the textbook is Dr. Jerry Shapiro , co-author is Nina Otenberg.

[Author/Physician/ Researcher Introduction:]

By way of background, Dr. Shapiro is a renowned hair restoration surgeon and a hair loss researcher. He is one of the few doctors who happens to be affiliated with the public hair research and skin institute at the University of British Columbia’s medical school, one of Canada’s pre-eminent medical institutions. In addition to being a practicing hair restoration surgeon and doctor, he serves at the NYU – Langone Clinical Center and UBC- Vancouver. Dr. Shapiro mixes teaching, research and diagnosis all in one.

Dr. Shapiro’s research is heavily “lab based” and he is constantly researching at UBC on hair follicle biology. Upon closer research, it appears he is the advising physician for Replicel and their RCH-01 trials. Moreover, he is conducting double-blind placebo controlled clinical trials (the first of their kind) on PRP to “validate” if the hype around PRP growth factors is true or not. (Note: No double-blind , placebo controlled studies on PRP and Androgenic Alopecia exists to date)

To date, Dr. Shapiro’s stance has been tailored to traditional FDA approved drugs minoxidil and finasteride to treat male pattern baldness. At the last consult, he discouraged use of PRP until further scientific evidence accumulates via double-blind, placebo controlled studies.

IGF-1 is a key part of PRP and one of many growth factors released by PRP, it is a key area of Dr. Shapiro’s research.

http://www.doctorjerryshapiro.com/ (Dr. Shapiro’s Biography)

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02074943 (PRP Trial - Clinical Trials.gov)

Dr. Nina Otberg is a hair loss restoration surgeon and also teaches, researches and authors textbooks on hair loss. Dr. Otberg has worked in research labs at the University of Berlin (Germany) and currently is stationed out of the University of British Columbia. Her specialization is in the niche of “female pattern baldness.”
http://www.hlcp.de/en/personnel

Both Dr. Shapiro and Otberg have authored numerous articles on hair loss in the renowned peer-review journal NATURE which has high standards of review unlike some other smaller “peer-reviewed” articles

In the research world, Nature has a high “Impact Factor” compared to many journals because of its strict academic reputation and many researchers and publication cite its research. It is not easy and fairly hard for the average researcher to get published in Nature. Moreover, many researchers have tried to replicate findings of many Nature research articles (aside)


The textbook authored by Dr. Shapiro and Nina Otberg entitled “Hair Loss and Restoration” has to say this about IGF-1 and hair follicle biology (meat of the matter):

[Textbook Excerpt]

The expression of Insulin like growth factor (IGF-1) in the dermal papilla is discussed to play an “important” role in the development of pattern balding. Older men with vertex balding showed higher levels of IGF-1 and lower circulation levels of IGF-1 binding protein 3. A decreased expression of IGF-1 was found in in the scalp tissue.

Source:
(Genetics in Hair Loss and Restoration, Dr. Jerry Shapiro and Nine Otenberg, pg 28)

https://books.google.ca/books?id=bJG...hapiro&f=false

Analysis:

It appears to me in my academic study of IGF-1 that this growth factor certainly plays a role in hair growth – no question about that. IGF-1 contributes to hair thinning and it is important! That being said, it can be speculated that the dermal papilla senesce in balding men/women impacted by androgenic alopecia is due to two things:

1) Lower circulation of the IGF-1 binding protein results in lack of IGF-1 in the scalp and thus, the regular hair follicle cycle is disrupted resulting in thinner and thinner hair until the follicle miniaturizes or goes dormant. The IGF1 binding protein 3 receptors for the dermal papilla are functional

2) Abnormality or inability of proper uptake of the IGF1-1 binding protein 3 at the dermal papilla receptors which results in the protein not being used properly even if IGF1 levels are higher and thus progressive miniaturization

As a medical student, I have to say that Follicept’s “science is strong” and they are going after the right target. However, the probability of failure is there, and it is high.

Thus I am cautiously watching and observing here. Who said science was simple?

This can obviously fail too, the complexity of the hair follicle has evaded a cure for so long. We have to wait and see the results.

The Challenge:

If Point # 1 holds true, then Follicept is likely to work. If Point # 2 holds true then, Follicept will fail.

The challenge or onus is on Follicept to show their trials one-man and multiple specimen experiments and publish results from double-blind placebo controlled fashion.

[diffuseloser]

Thanks rdas88. Very interesting post. Let's hope point 1 holds true. Guys please stop having a go at eachother. It's not about who's right and who's wrong. We're not kids here. We will see the outcome of this soon enough.

[Helix]

Gentlemen,

I’ve been a lurker on this forum and I wanted to share some details from a medical textbook that I was going through last day in preparation for my upcoming exams. I’m an M.D. student at the University of Toronto in Ontario, Canada. My area of intended specialization is in Dermatology.

Coincidentally, I happened to come upon a section on Genetics and IGF-1 in my exam review readings. The primary author of the textbook is Dr. Jerry Shapiro , co-author is Nina Otenberg.

[Author/Physician/ Researcher Introduction:]

By way of background, Dr. Shapiro is a renowned hair restoration surgeon and a hair loss researcher. He is one of the few doctors who happens to be affiliated with the public hair research and skin institute at the University of British Columbia’s medical school, one of Canada’s pre-eminent medical institutions. In addition to being a practicing hair restoration surgeon and doctor, he serves at the NYU – Langone Clinical Center and UBC- Vancouver. Dr. Shapiro mixes teaching, research and diagnosis all in one.

Dr. Shapiro’s research is heavily “lab based” and he is constantly researching at UBC on hair follicle biology. Upon closer research, it appears he is the advising physician for Replicel and their RCH-01 trials. Moreover, he is conducting double-blind placebo controlled clinical trials (the first of their kind) on PRP to “validate” if the hype around PRP growth factors is true or not. (Note: No double-blind , placebo controlled studies on PRP and Androgenic Alopecia exists to date)

To date, Dr. Shapiro’s stance has been tailored to traditional FDA approved drugs minoxidil and finasteride to treat male pattern baldness. At the last consult, he discouraged use of PRP until further scientific evidence accumulates via double-blind, placebo controlled studies.

IGF-1 is a key part of PRP and one of many growth factors released by PRP, it is a key area of Dr. Shapiro’s research.

http://www.doctorjerryshapiro.com/ (Dr. Shapiro’s Biography)

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02074943 (PRP Trial - Clinical Trials.gov)

Dr. Nina Otberg is a hair loss restoration surgeon and also teaches, researches and authors textbooks on hair loss. Dr. Otberg has worked in research labs at the University of Berlin (Germany) and currently is stationed out of the University of British Columbia. Her specialization is in the niche of “female pattern baldness.”
http://www.hlcp.de/en/personnel

Both Dr. Shapiro and Otberg have authored numerous articles on hair loss in the renowned peer-review journal NATURE which has high standards of review unlike some other smaller “peer-reviewed” articles

In the research world, Nature has a high “Impact Factor” compared to many journals because of its strict academic reputation and many researchers and publication cite its research. It is not easy and fairly hard for the average researcher to get published in Nature. Moreover, many researchers have tried to replicate findings of many Nature research articles (aside)


The textbook authored by Dr. Shapiro and Nina Otberg entitled “Hair Loss and Restoration” has to say this about IGF-1 and hair follicle biology (meat of the matter):

[Textbook Excerpt]

The expression of Insulin like growth factor (IGF-1) in the dermal papilla is discussed to play an “important” role in the development of pattern balding. Older men with vertex balding showed higher levels of IGF-1 and lower circulation levels of IGF-1 binding protein 3. A decreased expression of IGF-1 was found in in the scalp tissue.

Source:
(Genetics in Hair Loss and Restoration, Dr. Jerry Shapiro and Nine Otenberg, pg 28)

https://books.google.ca/books?id=bJG...hapiro&f=false

Analysis:

It appears to me in my academic study of IGF-1 that this growth factor certainly plays a role in hair growth – no question about that. IGF-1 contributes to hair thinning and it is important! That being said, it can be speculated that the dermal papilla senesce in balding men/women impacted by androgenic alopecia is due to two things:

1) Lower circulation of the IGF-1 binding protein results in lack of IGF-1 in the scalp and thus, the regular hair follicle cycle is disrupted resulting in thinner and thinner hair until the follicle miniaturizes or goes dormant. The IGF1 binding protein 3 receptors for the dermal papilla are functional

2) Abnormality or inability of proper uptake of the IGF1-1 binding protein 3 at the dermal papilla receptors which results in the protein not being used properly even if IGF1 levels are higher and thus progressive miniaturization

As a medical student, I have to say that Follicept’s “science is strong” and they are going after the right target. However, the probability of failure is there, and it is high.

Thus I am cautiously watching and observing here. Who said science was simple?

This can obviously fail too, the complexity of the hair follicle has evaded a cure for so long. We have to wait and see the results.

The Challenge:

If Point # 1 holds true, then Follicept is likely to work. If Point # 2 holds true then, Follicept will fail.

The challenge or onus is on Follicept to show their trials one-man and multiple specimen experiments and publish results from double-blind placebo controlled fashion.

Would you agree that this igf-1 binding problem looks a lot like insulin resistance at hair follicle level ?

[Helix]

This is not about IGF-1 it is more about carbohydrate metabolism in hair follicles. I thought it might be useful. I am convinced that overcoming insulin resistance at hair follicle level is the key. Sorry for the large images, I couldn't find the studies in other form.

[Johnny2000]

1. Hopefully within a month or two. They've received the IGF-1 shipment and were waiting on other ingredients. If all went well, Devon and co. started their personal trials today. Papers suggested that results may be visible after 12 days, but we don't know much.

2. They want it out by the end of the year.

3. To buy from Denmark? Or to have it shipped to Denmark? At any rate, we don't know.

4. They said they don't expect a shed, but again, we won't know until they test it.

Thx mate 😉

[Arashi]

There is no article stating that IGF-1 grows tons of new follicles. IGF-1 has never been tested for that purpose or been tested the way follicept is using it, except by dr. hsu on mice that are meant to mimic bald human skin.

Ok, so all you have is that it works on mice (like pretty much everything works on mice, however not on us humans). And like Swooping posted, on humans high IGF-1 levels are usually associated with hair LOSS, not hair growth.

So if people would approach all this with: "I dont know if this works, but it will be interesting to see this", then we'd be all fine. Yet this topic is filled with people who already KNOW 99.9% sure this will work, or even GUARANTEE that growthfactors like this can grow new hair (your own words). And all that is exactly why hairloss fora are THE ideal place for people to come to, who have less than honest idea's on how to make money.

Take a step back, have some scepticsim towards all new treatments that are being presented here 3 times a year, till we see proof that's worth believing.

[serenemoon]

Ok, so all you have is that it works on mice (like pretty much everything works on mice, however not on us humans). And like Swooping posted, on humans high IGF-1 levels are usually associated with hair LOSS, not hair growth.

So if people would approach all this with: "I dont know if this works, but it will be interesting to see this", then we'd be all fine. Yet this topic is filled with people who already KNOW 99.9% sure this will work, or even GUARANTEE that growthfactors like this can grow new hair (your own words). And all that is exactly why hairloss fora are THE ideal place for people to come to, who have less than honest idea's on how to make money.

Take a step back, have some scepticsim towards all new treatments that are being presented here 3 times a year, till we see proof that's worth believing.

You are right that none of us can guarantee that this treatment can work.

In terms of high IGF-1 levels and hair loss, here you go.

"All of these studies are retrospective case-control association studies. They are looking at associations from a database of information that includes whether individuals have AGA and whether they have IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 levels. Association studies are not evidence of causation. Only prospective studies specifically designed to answer the question address causation. This is a basic principle in epidemiology. Retrospective studies are convenient to do and often provide the impetus to do prospective studies to provide evidence for causation. They are also subject to many kinds of bias, which is one of the reasons why they are not considered as definitive evidence for causation.

A good example to illustrate this principle is an outstanding retrospective association study that controls extensively for bias, which clearly demonstrates that hypoglycemia in persons with diabetes on insulin therapy is "associated" with death. Even in this landmark study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, which is the basis for recommendations by every diabetes association in every country to avoid hypoglycemia, the authors were very careful to point out that it may not be hypoglycemia itself that causes death. It may be a surrogate marker for death. One way to think about this is that "A" (hypoglycemia) may be associated with but not directly be the cause of "C" (death). "A" may correlate with the actual cause of death ('B'), which is not yet known.

Thus, low IGFBP-3 and high free IGF-1 levels in blood ("A") may be found to be associated with AGA ("C"), but this is not the same as saying high IGF-1 causes AGA, since they may correlate with the actual mediator of AGA ("B"), which may not yet be clearly established.

The concentration of IGF-1 in Follicept is about the same or lower than normal free IGF-1 levels based on age (children have the highest levels because they need it for normal growth) and about the same target blood level for IGF-1 hormone replacement in children with congenital IGF-1 deficiency. The high levels in children, teens, and young adults are physiologic and are not associated with hair loss. Follicept contains a physiologic concentration of IGF-1 that it delivers across the skin to the dermal papilla where IGF-1 receptors are expressed." - Devon.

[NOhairNOlife]

I don't know if any of you have seen this video by a company called nanogen, it seems they are trying to do exactly what follicept is accomplishing. But I can't see that they(nanogen) went anywhere with it.

watch the whole thing but at around 3 minutes 40 seconds is where they show exactly what follicept is trying to accomplish:

https://youtu.be/aWK6qJFvWoM