Morr-F (Minoxidil/Fin) what do peope here know about this?

[GroughBack]

If it was a snake oil, I would call it a snake oil. I am using it and growing hair like crazy, If it wasn't working I'd say "don't waste your time". I use a shower cap and sleep with it on.

[JohnMPB]

If it was a snake oil, I would call it a snake oil. I am using it and growing hair like crazy, If it wasn't working I'd say "don't waste your time". I use a shower cap and sleep with it on.

Ok then provide the studies showing it's not snake oil.

You're likely on some proven treatment(s) too right?

And lol at you using minox and claim it doesnt work (it has numerous studies showing it's efficacy).

[JohnMPB]

If it was a snake oil, I would call it a snake oil. I am using it and growing hair like crazy, If it wasn't working I'd say "don't waste your time". I use a shower cap and sleep with it on.

And lol I find it funny how you posted your pics on their amazon reviews. You're either affiliated with the company or getting $ for ur reviews. Shill

https://www.amazon.com/review/review...sin=B00KEG85DE

[GroughBack]

You don't even make sense, if I lose my hair from it I post reviews and picts too, does this make me affiliated? Even if I were getting free products, which I'm not, Why would I want them if they don't work? Of course not! No, I am excited you would be too! It doesn't make sense to me why when anything other than prescriptions and drugs are working, the worst is assumed. I am just an average guy with an average job, who has a routine thats working for me. I'm trying to be helpful. I have at least 10 friends on fin, and its not really working for them, so I decided to go another route and it is working.

[JohnMPB]

You don't even make sense, if I lose my hair from it I post reviews and picts too, does this make me affiliated? Even if I were getting free products, which I'm not, Why would I want them if they don't work? Of course not! No, I am excited you would be too! It doesn't make sense to me why when anything other than prescriptions and drugs are working, the worst is assumed. I am just an average guy with an average job, who has a routine thats working for me. I'm trying to be helpful. I have at least 10 friends on fin, and its not really working for them, so I decided to go another route and it is working.

Studies please

[GroughBack]

Use in androgentic alopecia

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2840915/

Very few studies exist to support the claims of its efficacy. In a small study of 10 males with AGA (23-64 years) on oral SR, improvement was seen in 60%.[1] In a study of 34 men and 28 women (18-48 years) topically applied SR extract in lotion and shampoo base for three months led to 35% increase in hair density and 67% increase in sebum reduction assessed by sebometry, pH metry, hydration studies and phototrichogram (study presented at the fourth intercontinental meeting of hair research societies, June 17-19, 2004).[2] Addition of extract of 0.5% SR to ketaconazole shampoo was shown to give better results compared to ketaconazole alone (presented at the 13th Annual meeting of the European Hair Research Society, Genoa, Italy).[3]

The problem is that Saw Palmetto is not taken seriously, so when these study's are presented at meetings like this (study presented at the fourth intercontinental meeting of hair research societies, June 17-19, 2004). The Dr's unfortunately are laughed at and discredited, this makes study's like these all that more accurate, as Dr's would prefer to see no results at all with products of this nature.
Please provide a Study that shows topical Fin increasing density by 35% in three months. If one exists it will be very well funded, and easy to find, since the Dr's involved will not be criticized for having their name on it.

I'm just doing what works, because I'm not going to take the road that I know for sure does not. Again 10 friends taking fin, not one of them is all that happy with their results. one of us(me) using SP, nutrition and massage, is very happy with their results, and they continue too!
You don't have to do anything different, I am not necessarily telling you or anyone else they do. I just hope that people don't immediately jump on the Fin bus, because my best guess is that will take them to the same place as my 10 friends. Disappointed

Here's what i've learned of SP it is absolutley essential that it is CO2 extrated. It is virtually worthless if its not. This is what is used every single time in any study involving SP. I had to learn this on my own. Why is that?

[JohnMPB]

Use in androgentic alopecia

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2840915/

Very few studies exist to support the claims of its efficacy. In a small study of 10 males with AGA (23-64 years) on oral SR, improvement was seen in 60%.[1] In a study of 34 men and 28 women (18-48 years) topically applied SR extract in lotion and shampoo base for three months led to 35% increase in hair density and 67% increase in sebum reduction assessed by sebometry, pH metry, hydration studies and phototrichogram (study presented at the fourth intercontinental meeting of hair research societies, June 17-19, 2004).[2] Addition of extract of 0.5% SR to ketaconazole shampoo was shown to give better results compared to ketaconazole alone (presented at the 13th Annual meeting of the European Hair Research Society, Genoa, Italy).[3]

The problem is that Saw Palmetto is not taken seriously, so when these study's are presented at meetings like this (study presented at the fourth intercontinental meeting of hair research societies, June 17-19, 2004). The Dr's unfortunately are laughed at and discredited, this makes study's like these all that more accurate, as Dr's would prefer to see no results at all with products of this nature.
Please provide a Study that shows topical Fin increasing density by 35% in three months. If one exists it will be very well funded, and easy to find, since the Dr's involved will not be criticized for having their name on it.

I'm just doing what works, because I'm not going to take the road that I know for sure does not. Again 10 friends taking fin, not one of them is all that happy with their results. one of us(me) using SP, nutrition and massage, is very happy with their results, and they continue too!
You don't have to do anything different, I am not necessarily telling you or anyone else they do. I just hope that people don't immediately jump on the Fin bus, because my best guess is that will take them to the same place as my 10 friends. Disappointed

Here's what i've learned of SP it is absolutley essential that it is CO2 extrated. It is virtually worthless if its not. This is what is used every single time in any study involving SP. I had to learn this on my own. Why is that?

Study 1: invalid; sample size is too small. If you took a basic stats class or looked at enough studies in medical journals at MINIMUM there needs to be a sample size of 20 to make valid and sound statistical conclusions. This study only has half that number so it's garbage.

Study 2: the only valid one I see.

Study 3: again bad study example as the treatment group used a ketoconazole shampoo that had saw palmetto but it also contained taurine. Who's to say taurine did not play a role?

The point is I could pull up a 5 year finasteride study (official propecia studies) with over 1000 participants showing roughly 85% of users maintaining/regrowing hair.

I could also pull up a a 10 year finasteride study (Rossi et al) with over 100 participants showing roughly 85-90% maintained/regrew.

Your anecdotes of "10 friends" means nothing when there are numerous studies with literally thousands of participants in controlled settings.

To add more fuel to the fire you can get a years supply of fin at Walmart for $24. Your hairmetto stuff costs $70 bux for a 3 month supply and is in the realm of unproven treatments.

Listen, I'm not here to argue. I would just hate to see a young 18 year old kid with hair loss come here and read your posts thinking he's found the cure and a year later be out almost 300 bucks and with less hair. I was a young hair loss sufferer too and initially dabbled with snake oils cuz I didn't know any better and lost lots of hair in the process.

I do hope you have success and if it is working for u- great but don't peddle that stuff around here to people as if it's the next ground breaking cure.

[GroughBack]

Thank you.

But you are arguing with me, you asked to see a study for topical Saw Palmetto, so I did. I asked you to provide one for topical Fin and you did not.

Here it is another:

Morganti-P; Fabrizi-G; James-B; Bruno-C. Effect of gelatin-cystine and serenoa repens extract on free radicals level and hair growth. Journal-of-Applied-Cosmetology. 1998; 16(3): 57-64

ABSTRACT: The influence of gelatin-cystine and serenoa repens on hair growth was studied through a long period application (50 weeks) of a new cosmeceutical lotion. On 48 volunteers (24 women and 24 men) aged between 21 and 38 years, affected by androgenetic alopecia (type III and IV according to Hamilton). 12 subjects also took a diet supplement (4 pills per day) based on gelatin-cystine. The solution and the diet supplement (placebo and active) were assigned in a randomized double-blind manner. Hair mass and the mean hair number were controlled according to Price et al. Exclusion criteria included use of topical or oral drug or diet supplement within the previous six months. The obtained results showed an increase of hair mass from 20 to 30% (p<0.005) together with a contemporary increase of hair number (from 17 to 27%) (p<0.005) compared to the placebo for subjects using the lotion only. With the diet supplement a further increase of 50% (p<0.005) in hair growth and a significant decrease of blood ROS (Reactive Oxigen Species) were obtained.

My head that I look at every day confirms the study was just fine!

[GroughBack]

And if your among this supposed 85 %, then would love to see before and afters. because I would hate to be the 18 y/o kid that's taking advice, from someone who believes that expensive study's provide more proof than mirrors. There's a river in Egypt John what it called? De Nile

[LongWayHome]

I just entered their website (Hairmetto) and your pictures are basically on the main page, in a youtube video which says "Please meet John, one of our Amazon customers who didn't want anything chemical due to possible adverse side effects. Even after other natural products failed, HAIRMETTO worked for him. We invite you to see for yourself..."

It is kinda weird man.
I wanna believe you but it looks awkward.