All Propecia users,,, come here please !!!

[the_charger]

I think a lot of guys who hold a grudge against propecia lack the ability to look at things objectively. Whenever some study comes out that contradicts their views on the topic, they say “Oh man that HAS to be wrong!” but when something supports them (like this stupid poll) they go “see? Merck must be wrong because this internet poll tells a different story!”

This thread is a gong show. Seriously, what if a single guy from propeciahelp told a bunch of other members to sign up here and respond to the poll? What if someone is creating multiple accounts to do this also? Some of the crazier anti propecia members (STTB) I could actually believe would do this.

I think when you have bad side effects yourself and interact with so many others that all have bad side effects, you start to think the whole world is getting them. there is only one way to get to the truth of the matter, and that is with all these studies. The reason for that is they completely eliminate all the other biases that one would see when taking an internet poll, and give you straight, hard facts. I know people try to argue with the results of these studies, but its really difficult when the facts are right there in front of you.

[chrisis]

I know people try to argue with the results of these studies, but its really difficult when the facts are right there in front of you.

Did you even read my last post? The facts aren't right in front of us. One study says 0.7% have side effects, another says triple that at 2% and another still says triple that again at 7%. What "fact" do we derive from these inconsistent findings, other than no firm conclusions can be drawn? Also, who is funding the studies? What was their methodology? Are you actually able to answer these questions? Probably not. They said 2% and you believe them because you were ok. Talk about lack of critical thinking.

Speculating that someone is creating multiple accounts to rig the poll is ludicrous. Read the thread. These are genuine people. And as for those who hold a grudge against finasteride, if they've suffered severe sexual side effects, who can blame them? Of course they're angry. But accusing them of bias is about as valid as suggesting those who've had a positive experience are biased and there's supposed to be 98% more of them!

Personally I have more of a grudge against people like you who persist with delusion and denial. I simply expect people to be honest that they do not and cannot know how many men suffer side effects as a direct consequence of taking finasteride. Point to all of the studies you want, but they don't even corroborate each other, so how bloody good are they anyway?

[the_charger]

Which study did you see had 7% side effects? I don’t remember seeing that one.
Numbers and percentages can be tricky though... Yes, the difference between 0.7%, 2% and 7% when you take into consideration that 30 million people are taking the drug is HUGE. But some of these studies are very small, many with less than a couple hundred people. Depending on the size of the study, these percentages could only mean a difference of a dozen or so people. Of course you are going to see some differences when looking at all these studies, but i did a TON of research before I started on propecia.. The average side effects from all the studies I found averaged 2 – 5%. Bigger studies (more test patients) are always better and give the best results.

I honestly can’t believe you are arguing for the legitimacy of this stupid poll. You are taking this internet poll on a hair loss forum to be more powerful and relevant data than a university study of over 3000 people? Don’t you think maybe there is a bit of a bias existing on this forum?

I don’t think I’m in denial about anything. You keep saying side effect numbers are way higher than what Merck found in their studies… there are a lot of other studies out there that come up with more or less the same figures, but you keep saying they are wrong and they must be way higher in reality!? Why do you think this? As was said by another member, the Japanese study is the largest and most recent study done on the drug. I admit I haven’t read the whole thing but what specific reason do you think it isn’t accurate other than it didn’t agree with the results? I am not asking for a theory that maybe merck funded it or maybe this or maybe that, but what valid reasons do you have to question this study, based on actual facts?

[chrisis]

Here is the study I was referring to although it was actually 6%. Still, nowhere near 0.7% or 2%.

the Japanese study is the largest and most recent study done on the drug.

The study was done on JAPANESE men? Not American or European men, with their rich and diverse genetic heritage, but a largely isolated indigenous population in the far East. Can you spot the flaw in methodology??? If it wasn't so tragic it would be laughable.

As for your questions, yes I trust men who continue to post on these forums that they have been affected in similiar ways to me by a drug that works by changing the chemistry of their hormonal system. Seriously, it's not that hard to believe if you actually think about it what the drug is actually doing.

[captainmoon]

The defence that the poll is skewed because people with sexual health problems flock to these forums is weak and desperate. I was using this board before I even started taking finasteride, so chalk me up as an exception to your theory professor!

Men come to this forum because it's called "bald truth talk", i.e. it's about issues pertaining to baldness. It's not called "my dick is broke talk.

Look, those on finasteride without side effects generally won't be spending their days on hair loss forums. They're going to be out living their lives and enjoying their hair. They've essentially found the "answer" to stopping their hair loss and have no real reason to be on here (unless of course they want to discuss MPB anyway, which is fine, but they're not the majority).

Look at it this way: There are roughly 500,000 men taking finasteride worldwide. There are 2,224 registered users on Propecia Help forums. For the hell of it, let's double that number to an even 5,000. Let's say there are 5,000 men out there experiencing side effects from this drug. That is still only 1% of all men on it. Bottom line: There are a LOT of men taking this drug. Very few seem to experience side effects.

Again, I am NOT denying that side effects exist -- they clearly do. But there is a very loud minority who is great at perpetuating fear surrounding this drug. Also, chrisis, I don't think it was a great idea for you to be on this forum while being on fin. I would personally never do that. You should try it out again at a smaller dose (try 0.5 mg every other day). Just pop the pill, stay away from hair loss sites, and try to forget that you're on it at all.

[chrisis]

For the hell of it, let's double that number to an even 5,000.

Stop right there.

No one should bet their sexual health on guesswork.

[khan]

Look at it this way: There are roughly 500,000 men taking finasteride worldwide. There are 2,224 registered users on Propecia Help forums. For the hell of it, let's double that number to an even 5,000. Let's say there are 5,000 men out there experiencing side effects from this drug. That is still only 1% of all men on it. Bottom line: There are a LOT of men taking this drug. Very few seem to experience side effects.

Again, I am NOT denying that side effects exist -- they clearly do. But there is a very loud minority who is great at perpetuating fear surrounding this drug. Also, chrisis, I don't think it was a great idea for you to be on this forum while being on fin. I would personally never do that. You should try it out again at a smaller dose (try 0.5 mg every other day). Just pop the pill, stay away from hair loss sites, and try to forget that you're on it at all.

Very well said. This is what Spencer has been saying on his show for so long. Its a small subset.
And I definitely agree about staying away from hairloss sites, specially during the first 3 months of using the drug.

[chrisis]

I'm gonna be blunt here: you guys actually believe that me visiting this forum has not only affected the sensitivity of my dick and how much I cum, despite the fact I stopped taking finasteride like 6 weeks ago? Gotta say, no other forum has ever had that affect on my dick! In fact, nothing in 28 years has ever had that affect on that part of my body! Maybe they should bottle up the essence of this forum and send it off to be looked at in a laboratory!

On a serious note, you really need to suspend whatever opinion you have about finasteride and think about this. It's nonsense and if you were honest you'd admit it. Finasteride is a drug that alters your hormonal system and an unknown number of men are adversely affected by it, some possibly irreversibly. That's how it is, either accept it or continue with these absurd theories about forums causing people's dicks to die.

[khan]

I'm gonna be blunt here: you guys actually believe that me visiting this forum has not only affected the sensitivity of my dick and how much I cum, despite the fact I stopped taking finasteride like 6 weeks ago? Gotta say, no other forum has ever had that affect on my dick! In fact, nothing in 28 years has ever had that affect on that part of my body! Maybe they should bottle up the essence of this forum and send it off to be looked at in a laboratory!

On a serious note, you really need to suspend whatever opinion you have about finasteride and think about this. It's nonsense and if you were honest you'd admit it. Finasteride is a drug that alters your hormonal system and an unknown number of men are adversely affected by it, some possibly irreversibly. That's how it is, either accept it or continue with these absurd theories about forums causing people's dicks to die.

Chrisis, I am sorry if I offended you man.
Maybe I should be more clear. I never said its all in your head. All I was saying was that being on these forums listening to people tell you about side (alot of them never took the drug) actually does more harm then good. Thats all!! You know best whats happening to you man. I have said it before that there is definitely truth to this persistent sides. But its blow out of proportion. Maybe I am wrong, but thats what I think. And I am basing this on the fact that even the 10yr study failed to find the sort of oersistent sides often mentioned. I think they do exist but are blown way out of proportion.

[chrisis]

And I am basing this on the fact that even the 10yr study failed to find the sort of oersistent sides often mentioned. I think they do exist but are blown way out of proportion.

It's ok, I just think some balance is badly needed on this topic.

Wasn't the 10 year study based on Japanese men? If so, it only proves that Japanese men have a low number of side effects. Also, if a drug is affecting your sexual health, would you stay on it? Were the men on the trial rewarded for completing it? Were they being honest that they kept taking it? Too many questions. We just don't know the truth and that's the most honest and sensible position.