Dermarolling Community Trial

[SOTF]

This. You are not suppose to apply so much pressure on the scalp it draws blood. That's extremely excessive.

I personally apply enough pressure where it's very unpleasant and my skin turns a semi-bright red. NO BLOOD. It even stings 10-15 minutes after application until I wake up the next morning.

I think that's the purpose of the study..not stabbing yourself with dozens of needles while blood pours down your face.

This is just wrong. If you aren't bleeding you my aswell be using a .5mm roller. Use a 1.5mm, apply light pressure and see how much of those needles are getting penetration. 1/4th? If I am pressing hard enough to get even half the 1.5mm needles into the scalp, bleeding occurs.

People have been using .5mm for a long time and have no acheived results like in the newest study. So which is it?

[greatjob!]

I can't help but wonder why we haven't really heard much about this before or seen any real results except from the study linked by OP and the photos from the user PrettyFly83. I mean it has been around for some years. I hope it's because they simply have been doing it wrong and been focusing on absorption and/or not stuck with it long enough. Anyway, I will definitely give it a try and use it once a week.

DR. Cotsarelis's work is based on the same principle, so we have been hearing a lot about this, it's just a poor man's version of his work.

[Barron]

I agree. I feel like a lot of people gave it a shot from 2007 - 2009 and no one came to any clear-cut conclusions. Anecdotal evidence that it has worked for some people does exist, but no group of individuals tried it consistently and in a controlled manner.

The way I see it is, as with any hair loss treatment, it's difficult for individuals to gauge effectiveness when they don't see any clear-cut regrowth (even though, IMO, maintenance counts as effectiveness) and it requires months, if not years, to be able to tell.

Not a lot of people were doing it consistently and especially nowhere near enough with wounding. It also requires minoxidil as well.

Cotsarelis did mention back in around 2007 that wounding skin induces WNT proteins which helps hair grow, the same protein histogen uses for their injection method.

I hope we all get results.

[Velvetmonkey]

Why do people keep saying you need minoxidil for this?

The study suggests you don't need minoxidil to achieve results. It says clearly that people applied minoxidil 24 hours AFTER microneedling. I'm no expert on wound healing, but obviously you would absorb more minoxidil by applying it directly after needling.

Or am I missing something?

I'm waiting for my roller now. If this works it will be huge.

On a sidenote. I remember one time as a kid, my friend squeezed his thumbnail into the top side of my hand for laughs. A coupple of hours later a single super thick black hair had sprouted in the same place. I mean, I don't have hairy hands. So this kid obviously managed to force a hair to grow on the back of my hand by "microneedling" it.

So yeah, I believe in this shit for sure!

[hellouser]

Why do people keep saying you need minoxidil for this?

The study suggests you don't need minoxidil to achieve results. It says clearly that people applied minoxidil 24 hours AFTER microneedling. I'm no expert on wound healing, but obviously you would absorb more minoxidil by applying it directly after needling.

Or am I missing something?

I'm waiting for my roller now. If this works it will be huge.

On a sidenote. I remember one time as a kid, my friend squeezed his thumbnail into the top side of my hand for laughs. A coupple of hours later a single super thick black hair had sprouted in the same place. I mean, I don't have hairy hands. So this kid obviously managed to force a hair to grow on the back of my hand by "microneedling" it.

So yeah, I believe in this shit for sure!

Because minoxidil can give serious side effects if it goes systemic; rapid hearbeat being one of them. I've read reports that Minoxidil is supposed to raise PGE2 level, which are actually lowered in balding men compared to non-balding.

Also, I read somewhere of someone being bald and getting a bad sunburn o his head only to find new hairs growing after.

[hellouser]

On a sidenote. I remember one time as a kid, my friend squeezed his thumbnail into the top side of my hand for laughs. A coupple of hours later a single super thick black hair had sprouted in the same place. I mean, I don't have hairy hands. So this kid obviously managed to force a hair to grow on the back of my hand by "microneedling" it.

So yeah, I believe in this shit for sure!

Does that hair on your hand still grow to this day or did it stop after a while?

[greatjob!]

Why do people keep saying you need minoxidil for this?

The study suggests you don't need minoxidil to achieve results. It says clearly that people applied minoxidil 24 hours AFTER microneedling. I'm no expert on wound healing, but obviously you would absorb more minoxidil by applying it directly after needling.

Or am I missing something?

I'm waiting for my roller now. If this works it will be huge.

On a sidenote. I remember one time as a kid, my friend squeezed his thumbnail into the top side of my hand for laughs. A coupple of hours later a single super thick black hair had sprouted in the same place. I mean, I don't have hairy hands. So this kid obviously managed to force a hair to grow on the back of my hand by "microneedling" it.

So yeah, I believe in this shit for sure!

The reason you need to use minoxidil in conjunction is because it isn't about absorption, that's why you don't use it on the same day. The point of using minox is because it is believed to be a PEG2 stimulator of some sort, and PEG2 is believed to be a growth stimulant that helps with the upregulation of various growth factors and possibly inhibits PDG2, that will then hopefully reactivate the dormant stem cells in the scalp. It is unlikely that wounding alone will be enough to regenerate hair. Dr. Cotsarelis and Follica are working on a similar treatment with different devices and different growth factors. Without the growth factors it is unlikely to do anything, or else Follica would likely have released a treatment a long time ago.

[deuce]

Didn't Cotsarelis use FGF9. You think that would work with this trial here?

[hellouser]

Didn't Cotsarelis use FGF9. You think that would work with this trial here?

The theory is that FGF-9 added to wounding would create new hair follicles. Apparently its already used in other areas so a clinical trial for FGF-9 isn't necessary. However, its clear from PrettyFly that its not completely necessary and Minoxidil works at least to some degree.

FGF-9 you'd need to inject though, its molecular weight is 23,000 dalton. Human skin won't let anything higher than 500 pass through it, perhaps more but depends on skin. Dermarolling will of course help penetration but to what extent I don't know as there are variables, but I've read that it could allows a compound up 10,000 dalton to pass through it.

[deuce]

Thanks for the info Hellouser. Good stuff man. Hopefully Prettyfly maintains his good results and adds to it. Minoxidil gives me headaches and heart palpitations unfortunately. Hopefully Follica releases something soon, and is cosmetic so it does not have to pass trials. We can all grow hair and put this shit to bed. I may give the minoxidil another shot. I read on this forum that you should not add minox the same day as you do your rolling. Then I read that Prettyfly does his immediately after rolling. I am confused. Should we do it the same day or not? Also Haven't people been using dermarolling with minoxidil for a while now? What is the difference now?

[hellouser]

Thanks for the info Hellouser. Good stuff man. Hopefully Prettyfly maintains his good results and adds to it. Minoxidil gives me headaches and heart palpitations unfortunately. Hopefully Follica releases something soon, and is cosmetic so it does not have to pass trials. We can all grow hair and put this shit to bed. I may give the minoxidil another shot. I read on this forum that you should not add minox the same day as you do your rolling. Then I read that Prettyfly does his immediately after rolling. I am confused. Should we do it the same day or not?

If you get side effects, dont do it the same day. Its not completely necessary anyway to do the same day. Dermarolling isn't about absorption of Minoxidil, its about wounding.

[hellouser]

Interesting article from 1986 mentioning scalp burn victim with MPB regrowing terminal hair after the burn healed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1351889/pdf/bmjcred00266-0059b.pdf

[Velvetmonkey]

Does that hair on your hand still grow to this day or did it stop after a while?

I pulled it out as soon as I noticed it as it looked freaky. Today there's only tiny hairs that are barely visible.

[Velvetmonkey]

Interesting article from 1986 mentioning scalp burn victim with MPB regrowing terminal hair after the burn healed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...0266-0059b.pdf

This suggests that minoxidil is not necessary for hair regrowth.

[greatjob!]

This suggests that minoxidil is not necessary for hair regrowth.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to replicate a successful study unless you experienced unbearable side effects.