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  1. #1721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maradona View Post
    that study is BS.
    I'm sorry but you are just not paying attention... I don't know why so many of you insist that none of these future treatments will be able to help a slick bald scalp. None of you actually know that. None of you actually know anything at all - yet ya'll insist on perpetuating this nonsense. This is completely non-productive and yes it is nonsense. Until it has been shown in legitimate studies, it is nonsense. Ya'll are doing far more harm than good when you speculate in such a negative way. Sure it will likely take longer - but that does not mean they won't be able to do it. Time will tell - not speculation. Hold your horses until the real data about this is known.

  2. #1722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy C View Post
    I'm sorry but you are just not paying attention... I don't know why so many of you insist that none of these future treatments will be able to help a slick bald scalp. None of you actually know that. None of you actually know anything at all - yet ya'll insist on perpetuating this nonsense. This is completely non-productive and yes it is nonsense. Until it has been shown in legitimate studies, it is nonsense. Ya'll are doing far more harm than good when you speculate in such a negative way. Sure it will likely take longer - but that does not mean they won't be able to do it. Time will tell - not speculation. Hold your horses until the real data about this is known.
    No, he's doing more harm telling people just let you MPB progress when you're slick bald you can benefit too. what if they don't?

    All these clinical trials have always been on moderate-early stage pattern baldness. Not a single one has shown or done results on slick bald areas, except aderans who's struggling to get anything else other than microscopic hair.

    Many scientists in the past have experimented with replicel's aderan's and intercytex techniques. Intercytex and gho did use the same method as aderans/replicel and they FAILED because the results were not consistent, meaning that once the follicle has been affected for more than 5 years, it's done, no way to bring it back with HM.

    Yes you can reactive the stem cells and bring all your hair back but that will happen most likely in 100 years.

    It's better to be safe than sorry that's all I'm saying.


    So for all with no treatment and if you wanna benefit from these ones coming up:

    So just try to keep your follicles in shape, don't go slick bald. Don't take no chance, google, find the papers, research and then make your conclusions.

    Don't believe internet trolls "just go slick bald, you can get the same hair since you were 18 years old with your stem cells".

  3. #1723
    Senior Member Davey Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maradona View Post
    that study is bullshit. Yes the stem cells may be there, but there are more structures that have been ravaged by MPB. Histogen won't bring all of them back.

    It's better to stick with "keep as many follicles in shape as you can" than "just go slick bald the stem cells are still there so you will benefit too".
    Stem cells are the precursor responsible for creating the structures that may have been damaged. That's sort of what stem cells ARE, man.

    But on a side note, what structures are damaged, and what does "damaged" mean in that context? I've been trying to find info on that, but haven't been so luckt.

  4. #1724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Jones View Post
    Stem cells are the precursor responsible for creating the structures that may have been damaged. That's sort of what stem cells ARE, man.

    But on a side note, what structures are damaged, and what does "damaged" mean in that context? I've been trying to find info on that, but haven't been so luckt.
    and who the hell called and discovered them "stem cells" and did he have any results bringing these follicles back from these 'stem cells' in MPB affected individuals. You can piss on a rat and it's hair will grow back, it's a different game in MPB. Stem cells is a term coined by a troll named Cotsarelis.

    It's only one paper and one guy saying this, there are 1000s of others, read them all.

    Just trying to save your ass, research more and don't believe me or any other troll. Make your own conclusions friend.

  5. #1725
    Senior Member BoSox's Avatar
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    I hope this is released in 2013. I've been following Histogen since 2008, and it gave me so much joy knowing my hair loss might be fixed.. now that my thinning is getting worse, I might not be able to reach that goal


    grrrr, please hurry HSC!

    sorry, just venting.

  6. #1726
    Senior Member Davey Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maradona View Post
    and who the hell called and discovered them "stem cells" and did he have any results bringing these follicles back from these 'stem cells' in MPB affected individuals. You can piss on a rat and it's hair will grow back, it's a different game in MPB. Stem cells is a term coined by a troll named Cotsarelis.

    It's only one paper and one guy saying this, there are 1000s of others, read them all.

    Just trying to save your ass, research more and don't believe me or any other troll. Make your own conclusions friend.
    Uhh, the term was coined at the turn of the last century in Russia, dude. It was used to describe theoretical cells (now well established to exist) that are resposible for cellulargenesis in multicellular organisms.

    What in god's name are you even talking about?

  7. #1727
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    Man this forum is full of overwhleming optimists and total pessimists.

    The world does not work in black and white. The same is with treatments.
    Replicels trials were a failure. But does that mean their treatment doesn't work? Their treatment works. They did grow new hair, it's just that their treatment is really inefficient. If I remember correctly it was just around 3%.
    The percentages are ofcourse relative. It depends on how much hair the participants had before the trial started.

    The same is with the trials in question.
    I think that this new Histogen results are promising. I also believe to some degree they are on their way of becoming new best treatment for hair loss out there. But I still don't think it will be a very effective treatment.

    Still give me what I can get. This might for example reawaken 10% or 20% of my hair but it is still better than not regrowing anything at all.

    If there is a gun fight I would rather go there with a knife than bare-handed.
    Last edited by Sogeking; 05-16-2012 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Why am I explaining percentages???

  8. #1728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Jones View Post
    Uhh, the term was coined at the turn of the last century in Russia, dude. It was used to describe theoretical cells (now well established to exist) that are resposible for cellulargenesis in multicellular organisms.

    What in god's name are you even talking about?
    Wow you assume we are talking about general stem cells in this forum!!

    We are talking about progenitor cells and stem cells in the scalp. Both terms introduced by this troll cotsarellis in the world of BALDNESS.

    This site is called BALD truth as in male pattern BALDness.

    Yes stem cells are present in the bald scalp but this is not (at least as of 2012) enough to bring your follicles back. This so called "stem cells" and "progenitor cells", the latter also coined by this troll and there is a difference in this amount in mpb and non-mpb areas, haven't produced any good results EVEN IN THINNING AREAS. The procedure of HM and taking advantage of stem cells as many talk about here has been donde since the 90s. Results have been ALL the same.

    Replicel disagreed with some of cotsarelis findings hence they put forward their trials and research. All these companies disagree with each other and Histogen also disagreed with Cotsarelis (the father of "stem cells are present in the bald scalp" paper) in other areas of research.

    Histogen is NOT relying on cotsarelis findings of "stem cells" present in the scalp. It is simply using growth factors to stimulate hair growth in areas where the structures of the hair is still there.

    You can't just throw "oh this should work on bald scalps according to cotsarelis findings" so "i'm good i'll let my MPB" progress after knowing what i wrote above and there is MORE.

    Just go slick bald if you want, when histogen or CB come to market don't complain we didn't warned you.

  9. #1729
    Senior Member Davey Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maradona View Post
    Wow you assume we are talking about general stem cells in this forum!!

    We are talking about progenitor cells and stem cells in the scalp. Both terms introduced by this troll cotsarellis in the world of BALDNESS.

    This site is called BALD truth as in male pattern BALDness.

    Yes stem cells are present in the bald scalp but this is not (at least as of 2012) enough to bring your follicles back. This so called "stem cells" and "progenitor cells", the latter also coined by this troll and there is a difference in this amount in mpb and non-mpb areas, haven't produced any good results EVEN IN THINNING AREAS. The procedure of HM and taking advantage of stem cells as many talk about here has been donde since the 90s. Results have been ALL the same.

    Replicel disagreed with some of cotsarelis findings hence they put forward their trials and research. All these companies disagree with each other and Histogen also disagreed with Cotsarelis (the father of "stem cells are present in the bald scalp" paper) in other areas of research.

    Histogen is NOT relying on cotsarelis findings of "stem cells" present in the scalp. It is simply using growth factors to stimulate hair growth in areas where the structures of the hair is still there.

    You can't just throw "oh this should work on bald scalps according to cotsarelis findings" so "i'm good i'll let my MPB" progress after knowing what i wrote above and there is MORE.

    Just go slick bald if you want, when histogen or CB come to market don't complain we didn't warned you.
    Yes, there are different kinds of stem cells with different names. The difference comes from the variety of cell types that the stem cell can differentiate into. In adults, stem cells typically are partially differentiated, but that is fine. I don't want the stem cells in my scalp to turn into liver cells anyway, I want hair follicles. Whether that is possible for the stem cells in the skin of the scalp is certainly up for debate, or more appropriately, experimental inquiry.

    I'm not sure where you're getting that these aren't stem cells. That is a well accepted scientific term for a particular variety of cells. What makes you think he decided to fraudulently misuse the term?

    I will agree with you that we should maintain our hair as long as possible just in case, but no one implied not to do that. May I ask who you're arguing with?

    I think you need to chill outa little. You certainly are trying to bring a dose of realism to the discussion, but the aggressive argumentativeness is unnecessary. If you have reason to believe that the word stem cells is being used fraudulently (despite it being a well known fact that the skin has many stem cells in general), you should state why you think that.

    And if you just think these stem cells wouldn't have the capacity to differentiate into the cells necessary for hair structures, state the reasoning for that.

    Most importantly, if you have some insight into the Histogen process that explains why stem cells are uninvolved regardless, why not explain further how it actually works? I am curious myself.

    But why not do so without the d*ckishness. We're all p*ssed about hairloss, man. We're your equally unwilling team mates, not your enemy.

  10. #1730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maradona View Post
    All these clinical trials have always been on moderate-early stage pattern baldness. Not a single one has shown or done results on slick bald areas, except aderans who's struggling to get anything else other than microscopic hair.
    startup company A grows +10% hair on a bald scalp.
    startup company B grows +80% more hair on a hairy scalp.

    which one do you think looks more impressive and which one do you think will have an easier time getting more money from the investors?

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