Are we at another 5 year standstill ?

[Arashi]

Don't even talk about topical finasteride, that's even hilarious. The pharmacokinetic profile of finasteride isn't suitable for topical application without systematic side effects.

Agreed on that, topical fin will have the same sides.

And about all that other stuff: Of one thing I am 100% sure. And that's that until there's a cure, we will see more and more snake-oil therapies, like PRP, lasers, Acell, Pilox and what's more. And that's cause people LOVE to make money selling useless crap and there are tons of people who LOVE to buy useless crap for their hair (and skin).

[hellouser]

Agreed on that, topical fin will have the same sides.

And about all that other stuff: Of one thing I am 100% sure. And that's that until there's a cure, we will see more and more snake-oil therapies, like PRP, lasers, Acell, Pilox and what's more. And that's cause people LOVE to make money selling useless crap and there are tons of people who LOVE to buy useless crap for their hair (and skin).

Has a lot to do with playing with people's emotions with hair loss; show a touching story about a hair loss sufferer and how they got 'results' and people will buy into it... not because they're convinced it works but because they're desperate and WANT to believe.

These con artists need be put in JAIL.

[Arashi]

Has a lot to do with playing with people's emotions with hair loss; show a touching story about a hair loss sufferer and how they got 'results' and people will buy into it... not because they're convinced it works but because they're desperate and WANT to believe.

These con artists need be put in JAIL.

+1

[Arashi]

Anyway, I've always been positive about the future for us, but man ... Articles like these show the truth: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0702131632.htm

They can't even make good iPS cells just yet (!) and who knows when that will happen, might easily be another 10 years. And then they need to convert those iPS cells to DP cells, which is magic in itself and who knows when they will be able to do THAT. And then who knows how long that bio-engineered hair will live ? Or that it's 100% safe ? Really, we could easily be 30 years away ... And again, if you look at it the other way, they could also have a big breakthrough on the DP culturing front tomorrow. So again, I'm not saying we're 30 years away, but I'm just saying nobody knows and it could as easily be 3 days as 30 years ...

One thing is clear though: the iPS route we can forget about for the next few years.

[JZA70]

Why do we need iPS cells for hair ? You said earlier that there's two ways of "getting cells"; one way is converting iPS cells into whatever cell you want, and the other way is to get the cells from the source and culture them.

As far as I know, nobody knows how to convert iPS cells into dermal papilla cells. That process alone could take who knows how long.

Considering we can achieve 22% inductivity using the 3D spheroid method, we're off to a good start. I just don't know how these methods can be improved to achieve a higher number. Does anyone have any ideas on how the 3D spheroid technique can be improved ?

Didn't someone say they were trying to force melanocytes into the spheres ?

[FearTheLoss]

Don't even talk about topical finasteride, that's even hilarious. The pharmacokinetic profile of finasteride isn't suitable for topical application without systematic side effects.

Actually, finasteride was proven to be much more beneficial as a topical. I forget what team had discussed this at last years hair conference, maybe someone else can chime in on that with the link as well. However, Hasson and Wong is one of the most well respected clinics in the world and they aren't making a profit off of this, so I don't see why you'd think they were lying. They have been prescribing it to patients that had sides with oral fin, and NO patients have reported sides with the topical.

[mnhair]

real cure is off for a while unless something comes out of left field. however, pilofocus could be pretty good. Dr. Wesley at least makes some threads and is working hard. He doesn't promise regeneration but at least says it's an open question. He could surprise in the next year or two.

[joachim]

Anyway, I've always been positive about the future for us, but man ... Articles like these show the truth: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0702131632.htm

They can't even make good iPS cells just yet (!) and who knows when that will happen, might easily be another 10 years. And then they need to convert those iPS cells to DP cells, which is magic in itself and who knows when they will be able to do THAT. And then who knows how long that bio-engineered hair will live ? Or that it's 100% safe ? Really, we could easily be 30 years away ... And again, if you look at it the other way, they could also have a big breakthrough on the DP culturing front tomorrow. So again, I'm not saying we're 30 years away, but I'm just saying nobody knows and it could as easily be 3 days as 30 years ...

One thing is clear though: the iPS route we can forget about for the next few years.

i see it a bit different. i also read that article 2 weeks ago.
it's true that iPS cells are slightly different in gene expression than stemcells derived from embryos. but they are still very attractive for regenerative medicine as they are very similar to the original stem cells.
indeed, for hairloss there is a chance that iPS are not suitable at all. but if the difference in gene expression is not that critical for the differentiation into DP cells and their development, then iPS cells are still useful. this has to be found out first, of course.
maybe there's even a small chance that iPS cells, because of their slight differences, are even better suitable for DP cell development and other cells. thus, iPS could be a total dissapointment for some applications and on the other side the key for other applications.

the good thing about iPS research: there's a huge interest all over the world as regenerative medicine is the holy grail. the research in this relatively young field is growing exponentially and we will see some good developments within the next years.

[Swooping]

Actually, finasteride was proven to be much more beneficial as a topical. I forget what team had discussed this at last years hair conference, maybe someone else can chime in on that with the link as well. However, Hasson and Wong is one of the most well respected clinics in the world and they aren't making a profit off of this, so I don't see why you'd think they were lying. They have been prescribing it to patients that had sides with oral fin, and NO patients have reported sides with the topical.

Can you refer me to studies where this has been proven? I know of p-3074 with a chitosan formulation that the decrease in scalp DHT was more but they measured 1mg orally vs 2.5mg topically. It STILL got systematic too. So that doesn't make sense.

Btw that isn't the point anyway. There is a fine line between achieving a plateau for androgen blocking. In other words people are already on dutasteride + RU and that is WAY more potent than a topical finasteride or oral finasteride. So i don't see ANYTHING new in that. Give me innovations of treatments which yield better results than what we currently can do. We have reached the upper ceiling with anti-androgens or 5ar2 inhibitors, no need for that to explore more. Only side effect issues remain till something like cb-03-01 comes out.

[FearTheLoss]

I agree that it won't be able to achieve results superior to dut, but it could potentially be a better alternative to oral fin, for people who cannot take oral fin due to side effects. I believe a good majority of the posters on here wouldn't be here if they could handle oral fin. A lot of people are just looking for something to stop their hair loss, without sides.

[JZA70]

Topical/oral Fin is going to be history once CB comes out.

Finasteride is a shitty drug, I can't wait until it's no longer the gold standard for stopping hair loss.

[Arashi]

Why do we need iPS cells for hair ? You said earlier that there's two ways of "getting cells"; one way is converting iPS cells into whatever cell you want, and the other way is to get the cells from the source and culture them.

Exactly, if they can culture DP cells, then we won't need iPS cells. Just saying that the iPS route looks less promising now.

[FearTheLoss]

Has Desmond posted all of the information he was supposed to post now? why did he get all excited that we are really close to a full blown cure?

[Scientalk56]

Has Desmond posted all of the information he was supposed to post now? why did he get all excited that we are really close to a full blown cure?

No idea, This whole WCHR 2014 Presentations is a mess, i have no idea about anything.. from what others users said, nothing will be released in the near future..

Histogen is what i am so mad about... WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH THEM? were they a SCAM?
Until now, their phase 2 trails were't published in a journal, even though it was finished long time ago...
the funny thing is that they were supposed to do "phase 2-b trial"...

Life is a bitch..

[JZA70]

I don't understand Histogen either. They're sitting on a gold mine and not doing anything about it, much like what we thought Lauster was doing.

HSC is by far the best thing that can tide us over until a cure, but of course they wander off into the darkness and we never hear from them again.

Has anyone emailed Gail or Dr. Ziering