(CB-03-01 Vehicle Research) PhD Student in Chemistry

[hellouser]

Lets say in the absolute best case scenario, we find the right vehicle for delivering CB-03-01.

And lets say it actually does work in stopping hair loss.

What will this mean?

Will their be a huge horde of balding guys buying CB-03-01 from kane or these shops. And if so..........

• Will there be a supply and demand issue, since its probably not being mass produced?
• Will Cosmo try and sue Kane, and try and stop them from selling CB-03-01?

Keep it on the downlow and Cosmo won't do shit. Otherwise, buy a LARGE supply of CB to hold you through for the next several years and store the compound in your freezer.

[adam k]

Is it really possible to check for purity with a dissolved compound? Iron Dragon ships their CB premixed in ethanol/pg.

In theory yes but it might be a bit messy. Deutrated solvents are normally used which clean up noise.

If you knew the amount of each solvent respectively it would help let you know the concentration of CB as you can base the integral on them if thats what you also want to know. As long as you can see the solvent peaks and you know where they are you can just forget about them if you are able to characterise them.

Ethanol shouldnt be much of an issue, the propylene glycol might cover up some of the peaks though, I'll check the chemical shifts of CB in a bit. The Ethanol can also be removed using a rotavap leaving behind only PG. IF the PG can also be removed then the Cb will be obtained in powder form and this can be dissolved in CDCl3 to produce a clean spectrum.

Lets say in the absolute best case scenario, we find the right vehicle for delivering CB-03-01.

And lets say it actually does work in stopping hair loss.

What will this mean?

Will their be a huge horde of balding guys buying CB-03-01 from kane or these shops. And if so..........

• Will there be a supply and demand issue, since its probably not being mass produced?
• Will Cosmo try and sue Kane, and try and stop them from selling CB-03-01?

I think if it actually works with no issues then something like this will not be supressed and lots of 'Kanes' will spring up who will begin to produce CB and Cosmo will not be able to keep up with the lawsuits. It will serve Cosmo right for taking their sweet time and hopefully will give them a kick up the backside to market one themselves quicker.

[Winston]

Please keep this thread on topic- ALL off topic posts will be removed. Please refer to our posting policies: http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?p=126975

[hellouser]

I think if it actually works with no issues then something like this will not be supressed and lots of 'Kanes' will spring up who will begin to produce CB and Cosmo will not be able to keep up with the lawsuits. It will serve Cosmo right for taking their sweet time and hopefully will give them a kick up the backside to market one themselves quicker.

There are also the lawyer fees they'd need to cover for each lawsuit but more importantly, TIME. They'd be wasting a LOT of time on it and should focus more on selling a legitimate form of CB for hair loss. The faster they do that, the faster I can post make posts like this one:

[hellouser]

Adam K:

This may be a bit out of your field but, I may as well as since your far more educated on chemistry/biology than me, but...

If CB-03-01 is supposed to bind to the receptor and block DHT from affecting the follicle, how long would CB be bound to the receptor? lilpauly says Cosmo is going to recommend twice daily applications, but as with Minox and Finasteride, the recommended doses aren't necessary, in fact Propecia is sold at 5mg but has the same effect as 1.25mg.

Do you think CB could be effective for more than 24 hours?

[brunobald]

Cosmo prob love the fact we are experimenting. Free marketing and trials, I wouldn't be surprised if they released the vehicle to help speed things up. if this works I doubt they will care about the small minority that buy from the black market. Maybe someone should get on touch with a proposition.

[Westonci]

Cosmo prob love the fact we are experimenting. Free marketing and trials, I wouldn't be surprised if they released the vehicle to help speed things up. if this works I doubt they will care about the small minority that buy from the black market. Maybe someone should get on touch with a proposition.

Maybe the scientist, but that asshole lawyers and businessmen dont give two shits about helping us baldies. They just want to make as much money as possible. If they see us as a threat they might do something. Hopefully we find something that works before they notice so we can give them one finger salute for taking their sweet ass time.

[UK_]

It would be nice if we could have a topical AR agonist that was effective for 7 - 10 days.

[hellouser]

It would be nice if we could have a topical AR agonist that was effective for 7 - 10 days.

Hence this question:

Adam K:

This may be a bit out of your field but, I may as well as since your far more educated on chemistry/biology than me, but...

If CB-03-01 is supposed to bind to the receptor and block DHT from affecting the follicle, how long would CB be bound to the receptor? lilpauly says Cosmo is going to recommend twice daily applications, but as with Minox and Finasteride, the recommended doses aren't necessary, in fact Propecia is sold at 5mg but has the same effect as 1.25mg.

Do you think CB could be effective for more than 24 hours?

[yan]

The acne trial features 4 treatment arms:

- low dose of CB-03-01 (0.1&#37, applied twice a day
- medium dose of CB-03-01 (0.5%), applied twice a day
- high dose of CB-03-01 (1%), applied twice a day
- high dose of CB-03-01 (1%), applied once a day

Treatment duration: 12 weeks

I really hope we can apply it only once daily. I don`t like the idea to apply a topical twice a day for years to come... :/ I even had hope we can apply it only once or twice weekly like in the iontophoresis trials. But I guess we can forget about that.

I don`t understand why they had 50% more density with iontophoresis but only applied it 5 or 10 times in 9 weeks. But we have to apply it daily or even twice daily now. Why? Is there such a big amount of CB at the hair follicle via iontophoresis that it blocks the receptor for weeks? I understood that once all receptors are blocked, the remaining CB is quickly metabolized to the inactive parent cortexolone.

They applied it once or twice weekly for 5 weeks and then checked the density 4 weeks after treatment completion.

Most amazing thing is that the density increased that much AFTER completion of the treatment. 5 weeks without CB and you gain 50% density. Just amazing.

[locke999]

The acne trial features 4 treatment arms:

- low dose of CB-03-01 (0.1%), applied twice a day
- medium dose of CB-03-01 (0.5%), applied twice a day
- high dose of CB-03-01 (1%), applied twice a day
- high dose of CB-03-01 (1%), applied once a day

Treatment duration: 12 weeks

I really hope we can apply it only once daily. I don`t like the idea to apply a topical twice a day for years to come... :/

Don't care if its 3 times a day, as long as it significant stop hair loss with no side effects then that's good enough for me. Not that I wouldn't prefer something more hassle free though.

[yan]

European CB acne study:

"The products were self-applied in adequate amounts only to the affected areas of the face, once a day at bedtime for 8 weeks."

At least for acne it seems like once daily 1% cream was enough to achieve pretty good results.

[adam k]

Adam K:

This may be a bit out of your field but, I may as well as since your far more educated on chemistry/biology than me, but...

If CB-03-01 is supposed to bind to the receptor and block DHT from affecting the follicle, how long would CB be bound to the receptor? lilpauly says Cosmo is going to recommend twice daily applications, but as with Minox and Finasteride, the recommended doses aren't necessary, in fact Propecia is sold at 5mg but has the same effect as 1.25mg.

Do you think CB could be effective for more than 24 hours?

Hey Hell. I have been researching this and I had to consult my friend in pharmacology. Basically there is no way of knowing the answer to this and the only way you can find out is by doing a bio assay to find out the binding affinity of the drug. This tells you how long the drug can stay bound to the receptor. One thing I didnt know was that the binding is in a state of constant equilibrium so when one CB comes off another that is in the vicinity will bind. Then slowly the conc. of the CB in surrounding environment will slowly decrease due to them being metabolised. At a certain point then a new application will need to be applied. Hence we are missing two pieces of information the binding affinity (Ki) and the degradation rate of CB.

I don`t understand why they had 50% more density with iontophoresis but only applied it 5 or 10 times in 9 weeks. But we have to apply it daily or even twice daily now. Why? Is there such a big amount of CB at the hair follicle via iontophoresis that it blocks the receptor for weeks? I understood that once all receptors are blocked, the remaining CB is quickly metabolized to the inactive parent cortexolone.

This is exactly what I thought also and is baffling me. Iontophoresis is only a penetration tool, the drug metabolism and binding affinity remains the same. So I do not understand why with Ionto such few applications were done.

Maybe Ionto dumps such a huge amount of CB in one go that it can last for x number of days (this suggests that drug metabolism is slow). Maybe topicals penetrate so slow that the CB conc must be gradually increased over a number of days to reach that level at which point a steady state system is reached.

Having said that I do not understand this: If Cosmo said there was no difference between 1% and 5% tests then that suggests concentration of drug at the receptor is not important over a certain point. Therefore I do not understand how Ionto was used such few times still. This suggests to me a penetration limitation.

[lilpauly]

Hey Hell. I have been researching this and I had to consult my friend in pharmacology. Basically there is no way of knowing the answer to this and the only way you can find out is by doing a bio assay to find out the binding affinity of the drug. This tells you how long the drug can stay bound to the receptor. One thing I didnt know was that the binding is in a state of constant equilibrium so when one CB comes off another that is in the vicinity will bind. Then slowly the conc. of the CB in surrounding environment will slowly decrease due to them being metabolised. At a certain point then a new application will need to be applied. Hence we are missing two pieces of information the binding affinity (Ki) and the degradation rate of CB.




This is exactly what I thought also and is baffling me. Iontophoresis is only a penetration tool, the drug metabolism and binding affinity remains the same. So I do not understand why with Ionto such few applications were done.

Maybe Ionto dumps such a huge amount of CB in one go that it can last for x number of days (this suggests that drug metabolism is slow). Maybe topicals penetrate so slow that the CB conc must be gradually increased over a number of days to reach that level at which point a steady state system is reached.

confirmed can get cb into the ionto

[yan]

Maybe Ionto dumps such a huge amount of CB in one go that it can last for x number of days (this suggests that drug metabolism is slow).

"Rapidly converted to its inactive metabolite, Cortexolone, after passing through the skin"