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What self induced syndrome? and do u mean by him or his body?
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Right I read it before also. I apologize for not checking again.
That is something to consider.
However, he does state on the propeciahelp as has been quoted on another forum that he had gyno, shrunken ... and all of those effects, very severely.Comment
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I agree this story and many others are very powerful and sobering. But when we look at the whole picture, does that mean they are any more true?
It's still such a huge fact that these problems have never been found in a medical setting. In another thread, a bunch of surgeons were questioned and out of 30,000 patients, not a single one reported any permenant problems. These facts really cant be ignored, and how can we explain these powerful numbers?
These guys are reporting such violent symptoms, I wonder if anyone can explain why people having these problems were never found during all the medical trials over the course of 20 years. There is no way someone like this would be missed during their follow-ups with the test subjects!
thats really what still doesnt make any sense to me, and nobody can give me a good answer. There has to be more trials done, and soon. Ive still not yet seen any conclusive proof any of this is caused by Propecia except for the very powerful stories we keep hearing.
its really clear a lot of guys are suffering terribly.. but without knowing their medical histories or anything like that, how do I personally know propecia caused it? we can only take their word for it right now. the only thing these guys all really have in common that we know of is that they visit propeciahelp!!Comment
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Oh man, oh man. This is gut-wrenching. My true condolances to the family.
Just watching and reading Randys path to suicide, and about his life. I am truly devastated.
@the_charger
What do you think is mroe scary? The fact that their problems are unrelated to Propecia so any men can get them, or the fact that it is related to Propecia? They certainly haven't done it to themselves.
I believe it is Propecia, and I am not taking it. Ever.
If you want to, it is your choice.
But whoever asks me about it I am certainly gonna warn them.Comment
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I don't know, really. I know one side has evidence, and the other has none, but thats not to say it's not true. ive read a lot of propeciahelp and guys there are really hopeless, and some posts i see are just insane.. When someone posts there really looking for help, they are told that their problems are probably permanent and people are commiting suicide over it and all this garbage. I think thats making guys in a bad situation a hundred times worse. When you turn a scared, fragile guy into a hopeless one, you have just taken away his reason to live.
But my guess is as good as anyones. This video is very sad, but it doesnt really change anything from before it came out or my feelings about propecia.
I just started propecia and ive been on for almost a month, but I havent had any problems at all. Lots of these guys say they had bad problems from day one, but others say they had been on for like 7 years before having problems.
One thing is for certain though, I am only 19 and going bald.. pretty badly.. I started at 17 and it's way worse now. For the last 2 years, ive been depressed as hell, unable to focus on my coursework and my relationships with friends and family has suffered too! I know if I dont do something about it, I might even fall into a deep depression.. Honestly im fine taking a risk right now because its affecting my life that much. The last month i've felt great, because im finally taking a step to fix things.Comment
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@the_charger
I honestly hope that it works for you without any side effects whatsoever.
What I hope for even more is that a treatment comes which is both more effective and safe for use in the near future.
I understand the feeling of slowly loosing hair. But in the end for every guy it is different. I am ready to ride out the shaved head, and wait for future.
I wish you luck charger.
And I wish stories like Randys don't happen again. EVER.Comment
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Thank you for the good wishes!
I know im taking a risk, but ive yet to see anything to tell me its a very significant one. But if I have permanent problems after taking it, I only have myself to blame.
I agree, I think there will be better, safer treatments out soon. We can just all start on those when they are out.
I hope so too, I lost a friend to suicide 3 years ago. It was hard to deal with, but he had some severe mental problems. This doesnt make the choice right, but I know how depressed my friend was, and in his mind it was the only choice. Life can be cruel sometimes, but I really hope someone gets to the bottom of whats going on with all these guys before any more lives are lost.. And now im almost crying over the memory of my friend and for Randy!Comment
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The thing is yeah it probably *was* the finasteride that pushed him over the edge, but it was his lifestyle and things unrelated to finasteride that meant fin had such an awful effect.
And yes propeciahelp members have basically infiltrated every single hairloss forum, on hairloss-talk the 5 or so main posters are all PFS sufferers who post about it all the time. As an aside there is one amazing success story on fin there: http://www.************.com/interact...st=0&sk=t&sd=a (replace **** with h airlosstalk). This guy says no sides, and why would he? Read the thread and look at him. CLEARLY he is healthy.
I very much doubt if Michael Phelps, Ian Thorpe, David Beckham, or any professional healthy athlete started taking fin they would have their dick start falling off. Infact it isn't like no athlete has ever been banned for using fin is it....
If you aren't healthy, have manic depression, sit in a chair all day and do no exercise, have little muscle mass or are fat (meaning you probably already have high estrogen and low androgenic/anabolic activity), then dont take fin.Comment
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I think its extremely uncommon. But that doesn't mean that it's right to happen to the 0.01% or whatever it's happening to.
I think many of the guys on propeciahelp are suffering from these problems.. Either as a direct result from propecia or maybe it was just a factor that contributed to it.. Possibly a bad reaction to another med, or maybe they took them at an age where they weren't fully developed from puberty yet? Some guys dont hit puberty till way later. If you took this stuff while you were still developing, i'm sure it would mess you up. I don't know, and nobody knows.
the stuff at propeciahelp is very powerful.. and I think when you have a depressed, fragile, scared guy visiting there, it's a recipe for diaster. I think its happening to a lot of guys, they visit there and end up being depressed at even the thought of having these problems, and their minds just make it all happen. I think Dr. Wasserbauer was on the money with her post in the other thread with Dr. Crisler. Ive seen posts there where the guy registers, posts that hes scared and quits.. and posts like 5 times a day describing every bodily function, until 3 weeks later he thinks he has the same crash everyone else had.. Its pretty obvious this guy just worked himself up about it.
Also, propeciahelp has like 1800 members right now, but how do we know every single one had problems from propecia? I doubt even 20% of those members are still active; maybe the rest recovered? How do we even know all those members are atually people, and not multiple accounts being created? I'm not saying I know this stuff to be true, but we need to know things like this to truly get to the bottom of whats going on, and to learn how common it is.
I really think propeciahelp was first started with the best intentions, but its really not good for a person thinking they have PFS.. At least if they didn't read propeciahelp, they would still have some hope. And having hope is what keeps people taking the path Randy did.Comment
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Charger, im sorry but that's an unfair conclusion.
Firstly, propeciahelp helps redress the massive absence of information on the topic. Many guys have literally experienced PFS for years, in complete hell, before finding PH. Atleast then they can make some sense of the madness, speak to other sufferers and get vital information about potential treatments, good doctors and suchlike.
For the most part its simply pro-knowledge.
Of course negative undertones have developed. I guess this is a little inevitable if you think about it. The most active posters are going to be the guys most screwed up by it. The most desperate type. Many of these guys will be, i suppose, mentally worn down or disillusioned by their lack of recovery (often after spending years and thousands of dollars). Sometimes this disillushionment projects a little too far.
But you can't let that take away from the undeniable utility of PH. It has done more than you can imagine. It's helped me meet many like-minded, young, open-minded and determined guys tryign to recover. I've got a clear, elaborate and sytematic gameplan on what i need to do (try) to hopefully improve beyond what any one doctor could offer me. I wouldn't have had the same direction without the insight of many of these fellow sufferers. Many heads are always better than one.
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As for Randy. Such a sad story. Naysayers will jump all over his other problems. No doubt he did have other problems but i have also no doubt that the fin and dut are what did the critial damage. If fin can mess up guys that are perfectly healthy (like myself!!) i have no doubt that it can completely disable guys who are already in a compromised position health wise. If Randy found PH sooner, you never know - he might never have touched the dut. It could have saved his life. The lack of informed consent is such a tradegy.
You know what you're doing. So did i. Most don't. That's the biggest travesty of the lot.Comment
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What is your story then? To be honest I was scared by this, but like I posted above, I very much doubt that its possible for a Michael Phelps to pop 3 pills of propecia and then end up with tits and no penis.Comment
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Gyno isn't really a big issue on PH.
It's the sexual dysfunction. And yes, if Phelps, or anyone for that matter, was unlucky enough to have PFS (or simply develop bad sexual sides whilst on the drug which abate on cessation) they could very easily have "no penis" or whatever. Believe me. Most of the guys on PH are young, previously healthy and fit specimens. Not unhealthy slobs with a host of prior problems. That's the stark reality. These are YOUNG guys that were at their sexual peak. Including me.
Briefly (ive posted my story already). 25 years old. Took fin for about a year. Stopped it March 2010 due to lowered libido and erections needing more stimulation. Things got worse and worst after cessation - watery semen, weak erections, low libido. Eventually...penile pain and now tissue change and girth/size loss. Shocking. Prostrate pain etc. Still struggling badly but have fluctuated. Note - never any health or sexual problems prior to fin. None. I didn't notice the sides for atleast 6 months and even then it was just a minor libido drop which i just attributed to not having a girlfriend. I soon learned the hard way.
Most people tolerate fin better than me, no doubt. But i would say most think they tolerate it just because they take it a few months without issue (like i did!!). It can take many years before it creeps up on you. I've seen that happen time and time again.Comment
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No they aren't.
I was worried by this, but then when I looked at some posters histories in detail, I found in the first few I looked at, you had this guy on manic depression and giving himself a disease through alcohol/drug abuse, another guy who apparantly had massive social anxiety and depression for years previously, and one guy who was taking ecstasy and mephedrone while on propecia (****ing LOL), and one more who reckons he has another health problem even bigger than PFS.
Is there anyone who, like you claim, was actually *healthy* before they took it? Or have you just conviniently left out certain circumstances?Comment
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