HT Advice Australia

[unhappyhair]

Hi all,

I am currently 26 and I have been suffering hair loss since I was about 20 years old.

Over the last few years I have been using minox 5% and 12% and I thought my hair loss had slowed/stopped. That is until recently when I was attempting to cut my own hair that I realized that my crown and top of my hair had thinned out dramatically. Its on top of my head so it is hard for me to see and the front of my hair is not that badly receded. The sides and back of my hair are thick and my father is completely balled with think sides and back of his hair (like George from Seinfeld).

I don't want to use fin as the side-effects (no matter how rare) are unacceptable to me. I also look like a serial killer with a shaved head and it would be hard for me at work.

My only other realistic course of action is HT. I have done a fair bit of research but I still have a few questions for people who have been in a similar situation. I apologize if some of these questions seem a bit silly.

1. I am currently in Melbourne Australia. Should I seek treatment here or fly over to the US to visit a world leading surgeon. I have been told HT here costs $14 to $18 thousand.

2. What doctor do you recommend and where are they located. I have been looking into Dr Cole (likes you to be 29), Rahl and Hasson and Wong.

3. I would prefer FUE over FUT but is it less effective and what is the cost difference?

4. Because of my age, would I most likely need a further treatment in the future? Also what would I look like if I had HT and my hair loss continued, would it look unnatural (I know there will be scars)?

5. What Norwood rating am I at currently?

6. Could anyone estimate how many grafts I would need and if possible an approximate cost?

7. What is the percentage loss of grafts on FUE, I read 6 to 10% is that true?

8. How long does the procedure take and will I need follow up visits? This is only if I travel overseas for treatment.

9. Is BNP-32 snake oil?

That's all I can think of at the moment, sorry if they have been asked a hundred times. I have attached a picture of my current hair loss, I know it is nothing compared to some of you guys on here and I really feel for you guys.

I also have a friend with almost identical hair loss pattern and progression as mine and he is willing to travel with me. I suppose there is no discounts for bringing a friend.

Any advice you guys can give me is really appreciated! Its nice to know I'm not alone. Thanks everyone and good luck!

[unhappyhair]

Hi all, I have been getting a few quotes from different HT surgeons and alot are concerned about my age but I don't understand what is the difference between me getting a smaller amour of graphs now and having to have a follow up procedure in the future vs waiting until I am bald and getting a bigger Ht in one hit. One email said that I would need multiple HTs and would run out of donor hair, how is this possible? Wouldn't I need the same amount of graphs regardless of when I get the procedures done.

This is what I wrote back, you can also see the initial email.


Hi,

Thanks for your reply, I have talked to a doctor about taking Propecia and the side effects are unacceptable to me.

I am wonder what the difference is between me getting a HT now and getting one later when I have lost more hair? Wouldn't I need the same amount of transplants in the end but if I got them younger I would need another procedure in the future?

So say I need 1400 graphs now, but if I wait until I am bald I would need say 5000. What's the difference between getting 1400 now and then 3600 in the future vs 5000 in one procedure in the future. Could you explain this to me?

Sorry for lengthy email but I am a bit confused about the down sides of getting a HT young. Would I look funny if I got a HT and continued to lose hair?

Thanks,


On 16/05/2013, at 4:52 AM, "Joe" <joe@hassonandwong.com> wrote:



Thank you for your interest in Hasson & Wong. The doctors have reviewed your
case and suggest that surgery should not be performed at this time. Your
hairline, while receded, appears to be a typical NW2 which is a proper
hairline for a mature adult male. Given that your hair in the front is
somewhat hiding your hairline we can only base this observation on what we
see. Your crown area however is an area that would be best served with
medication such as Propecia before any surgery is attempted. You are very
young and if we transplant into the crown without doing anything to halt the
loss then you will need continuous procedures to address this loss which
will be very expensive, time consuming and potentially detrimental as you
will eventually run out of donor hair. Rogaine is not considered to be
nearly as effective as Propecia in fighting loss in the crown.

The doctors suggest you take Propecia for one year to see how it works.
Being 26, you stand a very good chance of seeing improvements in the crown
which will reduce the number of grafts needed for surgery and the overall
cost of surgery as well. You can send new photos in one year.

Regards,


Joseph Tillman
Hasson & Wong
1001 W. Broadway
Vancouver, BC V6H 4B1
Toll Free: 1.800.859.2266

https://www.HassonandWong.com

Joe@HassonandWong.com

[PayDay]

You are very fortunate that you found this forum and contacted an ethical clinic like Hasson and Wong. Consider yourself lucky that you were turned away and given such sound advice.

[unhappyhair]

You are very fortunate that you found this forum and contacted an ethical clinic like Hasson and Wong. Consider yourself lucky that you were turned away and given such sound advice.

No kidding, nice to see that there is still companies like that around. Joe from H&W has been fantastic, in a few emails he answered all my questions.

I didn't get permission to post his emails and I was meaning to remove the names from the email but I missed the last bit (sorry Joe!). I thought I would post the rest of the conversation because it might help other like me in a similar situation. Following on from my previous emails;

Unhappyhair,

I am curious was your doctor told you about the side effects. I'm
certain that we have more experience with the side effects than he
does as we've written at least 50,000 prescriptions for the medication
with very little negative feedback. It makes no sense to us to set
yourself up for a multitude of procedures that will cost you at least
ten thousand dollars each turn when each subsequent procedure could be
prevented with the intake of a simple pill. I've been taking it for
eleven years as have both doctors and tens of thousands of our patients
with no problems.

There are few downsides to getting a hair transplant while young as
long as you understand and are prepared for the fact that you will
have more surgery in the future. The options available do not preclude
you from having surgery now. We simply wanted you to start the
medication first to see how it works for you. Many patients your age
actually experience such a positive result that it reduces and in some
cases even eliminates the need for surgery in some parts of the scalp.

Your existing loss in the crown indicates that you are going to have a
lot more loss in the future but the frontal hairline pics do not show
any real loss to speak of. You simply have a NW2 hairline. If you feel
that this is not the case you can send new photos with your hair damp and
combed back.

Regards,

Joe


Hi Joe,

Thank you very much for your email, I will take you advice and try Propecia.
I was worried about the permanent side effects such as impotence, loss of
fertility and prostate cancer.

Could you provide me with an approximate cost of FUE for me at the moment
and also is it possible to estimate how long until I would need a further
procedure? Just trying to keep my options open.

Thanks,

Unhappyhair

Unhappyhair,

No worries, mate. I know it is scary to read and hear about these side
effects but in the time I've been working for this clinic I have not heard
of a single case of someone having permanent side effects. FYI, we do not
perform FUE in our clinic, at least not on a large scale. We perform FUT
(strip) which we feel is more efficient and allows for higher graft survival
rates. We charge 5.00 per graft for the first 2000 grafts then 3.00 per
graft for each graft over 2000 in the same procedure. There is a 5% tax and
all fees are in US dollars. We do deduct 400.00 from your final bill to help
with air fare and we pay for two nights at the Sheraton Hotel in downtown
Vancouver.

Regards,
Joe

I emailed him back and thanked him! Thanks Joe from H&W

[chrisis]

Have you considered Europe for surgery?

You can get FUE by top surgeons in Europe for roughly the same price as FUT in America.

By the way, long term side effects with Propecia certainly can happen. I'm still recovering myself from quitting a year ago, and other guys crop up on forums regularly.

[unhappyhair]

Have you considered Europe for surgery?

You can get FUE by top surgeons in Europe for roughly the same price as FUT in America.

By the way, long term side effects with Propecia certainly can happen. I'm still recovering myself from quitting a year ago, and other guys crop up on forums regularly.

Hi Chrisis,

If I was going to get HT, I would get FUE from Rahul (sp?) in Ottawa, Canada.

Just as I decide to try fin you have spooked me again if you don't mind could you tell me the sides you had and also if you have problems with medications before? Also how much were you taking?

One more question guys, how much should I take? I have heard advice from 0.25mg (1/4 Propecia), 1mg (1 Propecia tab or 1/4 Proscar) daily?

Joe also recomended that I ease into it, not just take the full dose from day 1.

[unhappyhair]

Have you considered Europe for surgery?

You can get FUE by top surgeons in Europe for roughly the same price as FUT in America.

By the way, long term side effects with Propecia certainly can happen. I'm still recovering myself from quitting a year ago, and other guys crop up on forums regularly.

I read your topic Chrisis, far out man, I feel for you dude! It really made me rethink taking fin, I know the &#37; sides are low but I don't know if I want to take the risk of having the problems yourself and the others in the thread are having.

I have a doctors appointment booked to discuss it but at this stage I am thinking of going back to looking at a HT. I dont really want to mess with hormones and I dont think even doctors fully understand the effects fin can have on the body, especially after you experiences.

[PayDay]

Have you considered Europe for surgery?

You can get FUE by top surgeons in Europe for roughly the same price as FUT in America.

By the way, long term side effects with Propecia certainly can happen. I'm still recovering myself from quitting a year ago, and other guys crop up on forums regularly.

It doesn't really make any sense to suggest going to Europe for a hair transplant after he was turned away by one of the best and most ethical clinics in the world? Having a hair transplant with his current pattern of loss could really mess up his life, even via FUE.

Joe Tillman is a freaking GOD in the hair world. His opinion comes from years and years of experience I would listen to him before most people.

By the way, I'm a long time Propecia user, no side effects with very positive long term results. Side effects do exist, but I believe the mind plays a huge role for many who claim to have sides after stopping the drug. Just my opinion.

[unhappyhair]

It doesn't really make any sense to suggest going to Europe for a hair transplant after he was turned away by one of the best and most ethical clinics in the world? Having a hair transplant with his current pattern of loss could really mess up his life, even via FUE.

Joe Tillman is a freaking GOD in the hair world. His opinion comes from years and years of experience I would listen to him before most people.

By the way, I'm a long time Propecia user, no side effects with very positive long term results. Side effects do exist, but I believe the mind plays a huge role for many who claim to have sides after stopping the drug. Just my opinion.

Hi PayDay, could you clarify what you mean by ruining my life? Do you mean money wise or would I look funny long term?

I am so torn at the moment, I don't know what to do. I am thinking of shaving my head again to see if I look any better with a beard. My hopes are pretty low and I will most likely end up wearing a beanie for the the next 3 months.

I guess no one has the answer I am looking for Fin scares the crap out of me but so does the HT costs and my long term looks as a result.

[PayDay]

Hi PayDay, could you clarify what you mean by ruining my life? Do you mean money wise or would I look funny long term?

I am so torn at the moment, I don't know what to do. I am thinking of shaving my head again to see if I look any better with a beard. My hopes are pretty low and I will most likely end up wearing a beanie for the the next 3 months.

I guess no one has the answer I am looking for Fin scares the crap out of me but so does the HT costs and my long term looks as a result.

Hair transplant surgery is a huge decision. This was just posted and I agree with what Spencer Kobren always says about shock loss and waiting.

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=12580

You still have a lot of hair that can be lost to shock loss after surgery. While this will usually grow back, sometimes it does not. How would you feel if you spent thousands of dollars , went through surgery, waited a year to see the results and then end up worse than when you started?

Hasson and Wong turned you down for a reason. If you're not willing to take Propecia, I think shaving your head is a good idea for now.

[unhappyhair]

Hair transplant surgery is a huge decision. This was just posted and I agree with what Spencer Kobren always says about shock loss and waiting.

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=12580

You still have a lot of hair that can be lost to shock loss after surgery. While this will usually grow back, sometimes it does not. How would you feel if you spent thousands of dollars , went through surgery, waited a year to see the results and then end up worse than when you started?

Hasson and Wong turned you down for a reason. If you're not willing to take Propecia, I think shaving your head is a good idea for now.

Thanks PayDay, is it possibe for fin to grow back hair or just stop any more hair falling out? Looking into it there are mixed results with some people claiming it can only hault hair loss, while others say You can regrow hair.

[chrisis]

It doesn't really make any sense to suggest going to Europe for a hair transplant after he was turned away by one of the best and most ethical clinics in the world? Having a hair transplant with his current pattern of loss could really mess up his life, even via FUE.

I think getting advice from a wide range of clinics is good sense. It doesn't surprise me that a clinic that only offers FUT is reluctant to operate on men in their late 20s.

By the way, I'm a long time Propecia user, no side effects with very positive long term results. Side effects do exist, but I believe the mind plays a huge role for many who claim to have sides after stopping the drug. Just my opinion.[

It's reassuring to to know that I just need to change how I think and all the side effects will go away. If I only I'd tried this for the past 12 months I would have recovered so much quicker and not wasted so much time getting blood drawn from my arms at my doctors' clinic.

[chrisis]

I read your topic Chrisis, far out man, I feel for you dude! It really made me rethink taking fin, I know the &#37; sides are low but I don't know if I want to take the risk of having the problems yourself and the others in the thread are having.

I have a doctors appointment booked to discuss it but at this stage I am thinking of going back to looking at a HT. I dont really want to mess with hormones and I dont think even doctors fully understand the effects fin can have on the body, especially after you experiences.

Thanks unhappyhair.

You could get some tests done to find out what your baseline hormone levels are, but I really do believe you take a risk with this drug.

And yeah, the docs are almost as clueless as people on forums who claim side effects are psychological. If you do get side effects, don't expect help from anyone. You will be dismissed on this website and doctors will tell you there's nothing wrong.

[topcat]

You really need to ask yourself do you want to take medication for what could be 30-40 years. Would it be worth it long term for more hair or would it be better to plan something around having less hair. Pick up at least 10 books on the pharmaceutical industry and learn how studies are performed and some of what goes on. Once you have obtained that education than make a decision with the additional information you are now armed with and if it seems right than proceed.

Often times those that are taking medications will encourage others to do the same. They might be doing this without even consciously knowing it but people tend to form groups. So in order to be part of the group and for everyone to feel good about what they are doing they all need to be doing the same thing. So if you group drinks heavily, overeats, uses heroin whatever chances are they will unconsciously encourage you to do the same. This is why sometimes you have to drop long time friends or those that are not good for you in order to move forward unless of course you can think outside of the group while still being part of the group.

The point here is that the more people tell you to go ahead and take the medication the more likely you will and the more that tell you to use caution the more likely you will use caution. Really the best approach is to pick up those 10 books and find out for yourself.

[El Nino]

Best post I have read in a long time.

You really need to ask yourself do you want to take medication for what could be 30-40 years. Would it be worth it long term for more hair or would it be better to plan something around having less hair. Pick up at least 10 books on the pharmaceutical industry and learn how studies are performed and some of what goes on. Once you have obtained that education than make a decision with the additional information you are now armed with and if it seems right than proceed.

Often times those that are taking medications will encourage others to do the same. They might be doing this without even consciously knowing it but people tend to form groups. So in order to be part of the group and for everyone to feel good about what they are doing they all need to be doing the same thing. So if you group drinks heavily, overeats, uses heroin whatever chances are they will unconsciously encourage you to do the same. This is why sometimes you have to drop long time friends or those that are not good for you in order to move forward unless of course you can think outside of the group while still being part of the group.

The point here is that the more people tell you to go ahead and take the medication the more likely you will and the more that tell you to use caution the more likely you will use caution. Really the best approach is to pick up those 10 books and find out for yourself.

^^^^^^

This needs repeating and would be an excellent sticky.

I have thought of doing a similar post but the trolls/merck reps have done their job and put me off.

People who work in the HT industry will NEVER acknowledge the dangers of Finasteride, whether they are aware of them or not. It is simply not in their best interest to do so.

You should stick to posts like this topcat and not the cryptic ones which fly over 95&#37; of the heads on here.

P.S. I wonder if any of the "Duta crew" on here will read this.