S-equol again

[Cob984]

From a forum member inquiring about this product:

http://www.proequol.com/

I was wondering what would be the benefits of reducing DHT by this remedy or by Finasteride. What are the differences?
I think it would only benefit is the reduction of DHT is that by other methods, to be free of side effects, no?
If a simple reduction as Finasteride does not see many advantages.

The answer: "Hello Julio,

I wanted to provide you with some follow-up information. I was notified by my associate that you may be posting on Hair Loss Talk forums about Proequol. We monitor these forums because they generally help drive a lot of traffic to our website. We cannot post on any of the hair loss websites because of the forum rules about promoting products.

To clear up some of the discussion about Proequol and equol supplements:

Any equol supplement, such as Pharmavite, would be unlikely to be potent enough to have a sufficient levels of equol, in vivo, to fully mitigate DHT. Through our years of studies, we have determined that 100 ng/ml of unbound equol in blood plasma is the minimum level needed to mitigate DHT. By our estimates (based on urine levels of equol), Pharmavite may only provide 1/12th of those blood levels because not all of the equol contained in the capsule/tablet will be fully absorbed into the bloodstream. Additionally, their product is marketed towards menopausal woman, and the blood levels required there are likely not as high as they are for mitigating DHT.

The moral here is that metabolizing equol in the intestines is the most effective way to produce and more importantly, absorb equol into the body. In that respect, any supplement containing synthesized equol cannot compete with Proequol's equol output.

Finally, some of the results of our studies cannot be made public because Proequol is being marketed as a nutritional supplement. Only pharmaceuticals can make direct effectiveness claims. However, Proequol is not a pharmaceutical and we must market the product within legal limits.

Thank you,
Black Bear Naturals, LLC"


Thoughts? anyone in the US willing to give this a go? Its DHT binder not 5ar inhibitor in theory, Cannot be shipped overseas at present

[2020]

It will most likely work but the price of $30/month is way too low...equol is actually expensive to produce and somehow they're selling that much for that cheap. Something is fishy.

[LMS]

So assuming this works, whats the difference between this and fin or dut?
Doesn't it essentially do the same thing or...?

[2020]

So assuming this works, whats the difference between this and fin or dut?
Doesn't it essentially do the same thing or...?

fin/dut inhibits 5AR which is responsible for other functions besides DHT... equol only inhibits DHT.

[The Natural]

It will most likely work but the price of $30/month is way too low...equol is actually expensive to produce and somehow they're selling that much for that cheap. Something is fishy.

Synthesized equol may very well be expensive to produce. Proequol facilitates the production of equol in the intestines, where it can be better absorbed.

[HARIRI]

I think Equol works similar to Keratene Alphactive Retrard. Its a DHT depressor and not a suppressor like Finasteride. However I didnt see enough study of it regarding hair loss like the ones I have seen for Keratene Alphactive Retard but I think it worths a bit of research.

Thanks COB984 for bringing this into attention. We really need to find alternative to Finasteride to reduce DHT in order to catch up future treatments in 2015.

This is their study regarding their product (Patent Application):-

https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US20120251511.pdf

Check out this photo from their website (very interesting):-

[2020]

Proequol facilitates the production of equol in the intestines, where it can be better absorbed.

uhm are you talking about taking PREBIOTICS in order to make your body naturally produce equol? Because that wouldn't work for many people

[The Natural]

What were people's experience(s) here with the product Densiti? Seems Proequol is an updated version, made by the same company.

[Cob984]

Wasnt Equol supposed to not reduce DHT at all, but just bind to it and prevent it from doing its thing?
Atleast that was the hype when Folexen was around

[HARIRI]

The 3 DHT Fighting Weapons

Finasteride

Finasteride, a 4-azasteroid and analogue of testosterone, works by acting as a potent and specific, competitive inhibitor of one of the two subtypes of 5α-reductase, specifically the type II isoenzyme. In other words, it binds to the enzyme and prevents endogenous substrates such as testosterone from being metabolized. 5α-reductase type I and type II are responsible for approximately one-third and two-thirds of systemic DHT production, respectively. It has the chemical potential to penetrate the blood brain barrier and has the bio-chemical potential to influence the pineal gland, the processes that coordinate the production of lutropin, the correlation of the sex-binding hormone globulin, dhea, and many other related factors. In addition, it may increase on the long run the risk on malign prostate neoplasm with roughly 1.6%. Because the body perceives its molecule as a foreign chemical, the metabolic processes employed by the body to follows the same pathways as any other medication. Its considered as a DHT suppressor.

Keratene Alphactive Retard

It only depresses the total level of DHT by suppressing the conversion of the androgen Testosterone to DHT through the adhesion to the 5aRD enzyme by obstructing the transfer of hydrogen atoms to the Testosterone molecule and preventing its chemical reduction. The body process the substance as an organic element. Main ingredients are "Sterol complex, phytoextracts and saccharose".

S-Equol

It binds strongly to the DHT molecules. When DHT has S-equol attached to it, it is no longer a form of 'free DHT', i.e. it cannot cause MPB because the molecule is no longer able to bind to receptor sites. When there are sufficient levels of S-equol in serum, the DHT can be captured before it can cause damage, even the DHT that is inside hair follicles since S-equol is a small molecule and can enter the follicular cells.


These are the differences between these three treatments.

[Cob984]

wait in the finasteride bit it states ' In other words, it binds to the enzyme and prevents endogenous substrates such as testosterone from being metabolized.'

Isnt this the exact same thing as keratene? i thought keratene was different because it adheres to 5ar and fin reduces 5ar, from your description it also seems like fin adheres to 5ar,
so wheres the difference?

[HARIRI]

I don't want to hijack the thread as its about S-Equol

But I will paste the answer that the Keratene company given me about the difference:-

Are there differences between KaR (Keratene Alphactive Retard) and Finasteride?

Yes. Kératene alphactive Retarde is completely different than finasteride.
Finasteride is a synthetically engineered molecule, with specific chemical properties.
Kératene alphactive Retarde is an organic compound, not synthetically engineered.
Finasteride has the chemical potential to penetrate the blood brain barrier (see latest FDA updates on fda.gov) and has the bio-chemical potential to influence the pineal gland, the processes that coordinate the production of lutropin, the correlation of the sex-binding hormone globulin, dhea, and many other related factors.
In addition, it may increase on the long run the risk on malign prostate neoplasm with roughly 1.6%.
Because the body perceives its molecule as a foreign chemical, the metabolic processes employed by the body to follows the same pathways as any other medication (see cytokine reduction), whereas in regard to KaR, the body process the substance as an organic element.

It does not interfere with the endocrine production of hormones, of hormone precursors, of enzymes or related peptides. It also does not influence the shbg or lutropin, fact that defines its “libido-friendly” characteristic.
In other words... enjoy the goods without the damage.
Up to date, no user reported any sort of erectile dysfunction or libido problems.

[HARIRI]

I personally find that S-Equol is the safest but most of its users didn't report noticeable good results. Its been sold as Folexen from Australia and I was following it closely. That is why I decided to go with Keratene Alphactive Rertard as a replacement for Fin, however if anyone out there had positive outcomes and results with using S-Equol regardless which brand then please let me know.

So far Keratene Alphactive Retard and S-Equol are the only DHT depressors available in the market beside FIN.

[bananana]

I personally find that S-Equol is the safest but most of its users didn't report noticeable good results. Its been sold as Folexen from Australia and I was following it closely. That is why I decided to go with Keratene Alphactive Rertard as a replacement for Fin, however if anyone out there had positive outcomes and results with using S-Equol regardless which brand then please let me know.

So far Keratene Alphactive Retard and S-Equol are the only DHT depressors available in the market beside FIN.

Folexen from Australia is probably a scam, I used it for 3 months, didn't notice anything whatsoever, I still have a bunch of unopened bottles (if anyone by chance wants to buy ). The company went bust very soon.

Therefore we should judge s-equol from a TRUSTED or proven source.

[PinotQ]

Sometime last year, someone posted on TBT that a representative from Pharmavite told them that release of their S-Equol product was scheduled for the second quarter of 2013. I have emailed various contacts at Pharmavite and Nature Made but they have not responded to confirm their release date. I have done quite a bit of research on S-Equol as I believe it has a high probability of shutting down the degradation caused by DHT. The dose being used by Pharmavite in their consumer trials is 10 MG per day split 5 mg in the am and 5 mg in the pm. Based on research data from some of the clinical trials, I believe it would take 40 to 50 mg to shut down DHT. I can probably find the report if anyone is interested. Based on the half life of S-Equol in the body (you can read the details on Pharmavites website), it would appear that the optimum dosage might occur by taking the product 3 times per day rather than 2. I would also note that safety concerns with S-Equol should be minimal as it occurs naturally in about 30% of the overall population. In the course of consumer and clinical trials, they also uncovered reason to believe that S-Equol helps reduce Metabolic Syndrome (associated with heart disease and diabetes) and it helps reduce "crows feet", possibly related to the reduction of androgenic activity in the skin.