It is well past time to stop this negative BS concerning Replicel.
O.K., I get it. Most you you do not understand enough about it to be able to see that Replicel's results are positive. Since you obviously don't get it, at least have the grace of God to shut up with the negativity. You are doing far more harm than good. So put a cork in it.
05-03-2012 10:21 AM
Davey Jones
Agreed. People need to remember a couple things:
1. This injection was in the temple. People keep saying things like "so it doesn't even work as good as Rogaine?" To my knowledge, Rogaine doesn't really grow hair at all in the temple region. (I could be wrong, but I heard that. Can someone verify?) The point being, we all know that the temple is a hard place to grow hair. Anything is a good sign.
2. This is the six month mark. Let's admit it, we all probably know way too much about hair growth cycles for our own good. So why is everyone forgetting everything they know now? Treatment takes a lot longer than six months.
Does any body have the numbers on how Histogen was doing at six months? I feel like I remember disappointing results during that period, only to find things looking a lot more promising at a year.
05-03-2012 10:26 AM
Davey Jones
I just read in another forum that the injections were at the vertex. I've been hearing temple for so long though. Does anyone have the facts on this?
05-03-2012 10:31 AM
kaandereli
histogen achieved 23% growth in 3 months.
but still i dont say that replicel has failed, because the dosage was relatively low.also in one of histogen's graphs, there is an exponential increase in hair growth after 1 year, so we should look at 12 months results
05-03-2012 10:31 AM
gmonasco
David Hall said in his interview with Spencer that the injections were at the vertex.
05-03-2012 10:42 AM
amadeus
Thank you for posting this Tracy. The worst and most disgusting example of the negatively come from the poisonous hairsite crew. These are just disgusting people who’s mission in life is to poison anything that does not fit into their bizarre agenda. Replicel is making positive steps and like it was said in the interview, it was only six months! Everyone should be thrilled that this company and others are working to cure hair loss and stop looking at the glass half empty. I’m sick of these trolls!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
O.K., I get it. Most you you do not understand enough about it to be able to see that Replicel's results are positive. Since you obviously don't get it, at least have the grace of God to shut up with the negativity. You are doing far more harm than good. So put a cork in it.
05-03-2012 10:54 AM
The Alchemist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
O.K., I get it. Most you you do not understand enough about it to be able to see that Replicel's results are positive. Since you obviously don't get it, at least have the grace of God to shut up with the negativity. You are doing far more harm than good. So put a cork in it.
Do everyone a favor and shut up. You have no clue what you're talking about.
The study was phase I/II
They studied safety AND efficacy. If you think 3.2% growth is positive, then you need to get your head examined or check back in to elementary school and learn some mathematics. The ONLY aspect that this trial is positive for is safety. But, that's mitigated by the fact that they already knew this was going to be safe...as autologous cell treatments tend to be. It would've been a complete and utter shock if it wasn't.
Replicel may not have been expecting to see the home run 30%+ result in this kind of trial; but, to get so little (i remind you that 3.2% growth only happened for 60% of the subjects, nearly half of which were female) is not what they were anticipating. And if you want to know what they were anticipating, go back and listen to their promotions, look at the website etc..
David Hall is on record (in writing, on video and radio interviews) as saying that their bench mark for success is current treatments, i.e. minox and propecia. Their results fell short by an order of magnitude. This is not something that a little tweaking of injection volume is going to fix. Something went fundamentally wrong with their study. If you think that they were expecting these results, or that this is a postive event, then you're clueless. This is a major red flag. And all you need to do is look at the stock price to see whether this is positive or negative. That sharp downward sloping line indicates that money is moving away from Replicel, not towards them...which is what would happen with a truly "positive" result.
The only (slight) chance they have with this is IF, the vellus hairs go terminal and some additional growth is seen in the next 6 months. I can assure you that without any improvement on these results in the next 6-12 months, they will be selling off their IP to try and recoup any money they can. The results they have, to date, will not attract money. Money is the life blood of any company, especially ones in such an early stage of development.
It's scary how naive some people can be.
05-03-2012 11:01 AM
25 going on 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
O.K., I get it. Most you you do not understand enough about it to be able to see that Replicel's results are positive. Since you obviously don't get it, at least have the grace of God to shut up with the negativity. You are doing far more harm than good. So put a cork in it.
Man is a jumpy creature, and a lot of people don't know how to interpret clinical trial data (including investors)--not because it's hard but because they haven't taken the time yet.
Look at how many are still focused on % of growth as if it's important to this trial, when they could have known better months in advance. And this is several days after the announcement.
It's typical forum panic. We've all seen this before.
But I do think the hysteria will die down as people gain context.
05-03-2012 11:04 AM
jman91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
O.K., I get it. Most you you do not understand enough about it to be able to see that Replicel's results are positive. Since you obviously don't get it, at least have the grace of God to shut up with the negativity. You are doing far more harm than good. So put a cork in it.
people putting 'a cork in it' is surely a fundamental contradiction of an open forum...Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
there is a lot of false hope going on with replicel, we should just focus on histogen and Aderans! Replicel is dead in the water, whos going to buy stock with results like 3%? come on, this false hope is doing harm to people, making them keep faith in company that won't help produce the goods, let alone some people on this forum who invested $1000's. Can't we all just accept replicel blew their shot, but there are still other promising companies doing stuff.
05-03-2012 11:04 AM
gmonasco
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alchemist
Do everyone a favor and shut up. You have no clue what you're talking about.
If only you'd heeded that advice.
Quote:
They studied safety AND efficacy.
Yes, in a study that was something like 95% about safety and 5% about efficacy. Phase I trials are far too limited in scope to be anything close to a thorough examination of efficacy. If you've got everything spot-on the first time around, then you can demonstrate efficacy; but if not, such trials don't allow for the adjustment of multiple variables that might produce different results. True efficacy can only be gauged after all a full Phase II trial.
Quote:
This is not something that a little tweaking of injection volume is going to fix.
There are a whole lot of other variables to consider: dosage, injection site, injection frequency, test subject variability, latency period, etc.
05-03-2012 11:26 AM
john2399
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman91
people putting 'a cork in it' is surely a fundamental contradiction of an open forum...Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
there is a lot of false hope going on with replicel, we should just focus on histogen and Aderans! Replicel is dead in the water, whos going to buy stock with results like 3%? come on, this false hope is doing harm to people, making them keep faith in company that won't help produce the goods, let alone some people on this forum who invested $1000's. Can't we all just accept replicel blew their shot, but there are still other promising companies doing stuff.
If you give up on replicel than give up on this threat than.
05-03-2012 11:38 AM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alchemist
Do everyone a favor and shut up. You have no clue what you're talking about.
Apparently I understand way more about this than you do. Now go spread your ill-informed dead from the neck up negative poison somewhere else before you do too much damage.
05-03-2012 11:43 AM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman91
there is a lot of false hope going on with replicel, we should just focus on histogen and Aderans!
Replicle is far from dead in the water. We should focus on anyone and everyone who is actually trying. Replicel is trying and they got positive results. Now go spread yopur negative poison somewhere else.
05-03-2012 11:44 AM
jman91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
Apparently I understand way more about this than you do. Now go spread your ill-informed dead from the neck up negative poison somewhere else before you do too much damage.
Tracy C is a troll. Do not feed the trolls.
05-03-2012 11:44 AM
ccmethinning
Declaring something negative poison doesn't make it wrong.
People who don't acknowledge the disappointing nature of these results are living in blissful ignorance.
At least we have Gho now and histogen looks somewhat promising.
05-03-2012 11:47 AM
clandestine
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccmethinning
Declaring something negative poison doesn't make it wrong.
People who don't acknowledge the disappointing nature of these results are living in blissful ignorance.
At least we have Gho now and histogen looks somewhat promising.
Back to hair site with you, mayhaps?
05-03-2012 11:53 AM
ccmethinning
Quote:
Originally Posted by clandestine
Back to hair site with you, mayhaps?
I've been a member here longer than I have at hairsite. I think I have more posts here too.
I'm not a troll. It's just that my balls just got pulverized by RepliCel's non-result results and I'm not gonna keep riding their jock.
05-03-2012 11:53 AM
gmonasco
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccmethinning
People who don't acknowledge the disappointing nature of these results are living in blissful ignorance.
People who continually spread misinformation about the nature of those results are actually ignorant, however.
05-03-2012 11:59 AM
Maradona
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccmethinning
Declaring something negative poison doesn't make it wrong.
People who don't acknowledge the disappointing nature of these results are living in blissful ignorance.
At least we have Gho now and histogen looks somewhat promising.
If the results are negative what's the point of saying it again and again. We are hurting people here and the company too. Let's keep our opinions to ourselves. I am also detracting from replicel forever but i have my own reasons.
About Gho, you need to know something. Iron_Man knows Gho regenerates hair, it is quite obvious at this point. He pushes Gho because he wants to find out if repeated procedures using the same donor can be done and how far most people can go. I also wonder how consistent Gho's technique is.
From what I've gathered, results haven't been consistent but there is regeneration. What gho claims and what he produces are two different things.
I have the money to go to Gho right now and live in netherlands for a while if I wanted. But while I am convinced of regeneration, I am not convinced if this can be used as a long term treatment due to consistency.
All Gho needs to do is produce a result that cosmetically surpasses FUE and I am not talking about regeneration, just overall results, to impress every skeptic here. There's not much Spencer can do about this, only Gho can.
05-03-2012 12:02 PM
UK_
Does anyone here agree that the "positive" results of Replical MAY affirm the findings of Aderans?
I know the results didnt rock our world, but SOMETHING 'down there' happened - and I think we can ALL agree... every form of technology starts off shit.
05-03-2012 12:07 PM
gmonasco
Quote:
Originally Posted by UK_
Will anyone here agree that the "positive" results of Replical MAY affirm the findings of Aderans?
They may, but they also may lead to nothing more than a dead end.
Quote:
I know the results didnt rock our world, but SOMETHING 'down there' happened - and I think we can ALL agree... every form of technology starts off shit.
Indeed, it's unrealistic to expect that someone is suddenly going to produce a revolutionary new hair loss treatment. Such discoveries are evolutionary in nature, and even seemingly failed efforts contribute to the process by adding to the knowledge base.
05-03-2012 12:15 PM
Maradona
Quote:
Originally Posted by UK_
Does anyone here agree that the "positive" results of Replical MAY affirm the findings of Aderans?
I know the results didnt rock our world, but SOMETHING 'down there' happened - and I think we can ALL agree... every form of technology starts off shit.
So far replicel has approximately the same phase 1 results as aderans. I was hoping for replicel to SHIT on aderans results to be honest.
Throwing regrowth aside, if there's one thing that is "positive", is the fact that it was able to thicken up terminal hair. If that hair is immunized from DHT, this could be definitely be a good thing for those with hair and women IF they work hard.
By the time this comes out though I would be a Norwood 7. So, yeah I am done with replicel.
05-03-2012 01:47 PM
UK_
David Hall sounded depressed during his interview with Spencer... I think it was because he was scrolling through this thread as he was speaking on the phone:
Yes, in a study that was something like 95% about safety and 5% about efficacy. Phase I trials are far too limited in scope to be anything close to a thorough examination of efficacy. If you've got everything spot-on the first time around, then you can demonstrate efficacy; but if not, such trials don't allow for the adjustment of multiple variables that might produce different results. True efficacy can only be gauged after all a full Phase II trial..
What are you going on about? No one ever said anything about "true efficacy". This trial is being evaluated by the parameters set by David Hall and Replicel. He was the one who came out an said, in regards to the efficacy of this trial (phase I/II), this interim report, that the benchmark would be current treatments i.e. minox and propecia. He is on record as saying (very explicitly) what a success would be defined as, in terms of efficacy. So don't tell me that this trial was 5% efficacy. That is not the picture painted by Hall in his pre-results media interactions. You're simply making things up. This trial was about both safety and efficacy and each dimension carries it's own importance. That's why they even bothered to collect the efficacy data at all, nevermind sending it out in an official report.
You and Tracy can clap your hands over your ears and scream nah, nah, nah i can't hear you all you want . But, these results as they stand, are a disappointment for everyone involved...and that is a mathematical certainty which can't be denied.
Now, if you want to discuss the possibility of more growth in the next 6-12 months, and them turning this around, I'd be glad to. As I don't think this is the nail in the coffin for them. I do believe there is a possibility that the hair cycle time may affect results on a much larger time frame then anyone is used to. But, that remains to be seen.
Regardless of how anyone views these results, the fact of the matter is, they have a very long road ahead of them. 2014/2015 timelines which were being thrown around (by Replicel!) are no longer a reality. Which for some of us, is a disappointment in and of itself.
05-03-2012 02:56 PM
sausage
You can say they are positive results cos some actual growth has happend...BUT the amount of growth is so low which effectively makes the results negative.
I myself am after a treatment/cure that will get all my hair back or at least 50% of the thickness would be satisfactory.
We are miles away from this with Replicel.
05-03-2012 03:57 PM
JJJJrS
I'm not sure what the original poster wants. It appears every time someone doesn't write something glowing about Replicel that she calls them "uneducated," "negative" etc.
Replicel has shown no effectiveness whatsoever. No substantial regrowth, nothing to inspire any confidence in their procedure. Given that David Hall publicly said he was expecting >20% growth and that websites and analysts were paid big money to promote their stock as a potential cure, posters have every right to be upset.
I'm disappointed as well but that doesn't mean we should bury our heads in the sand. As long as posters are being reasonable they have every right to vent or question Replicel.
05-03-2012 05:39 PM
gmonasco
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alchemist
He is on record as saying (very explicitly) what a success would be defined as, in terms of efficacy.
"If we achieve 20% percent growth that would be a home run in terms of the comparative technologies out there.”
That ain't the same thing as saying "We expect 20% growth" or "If we don't achieve 20% growth, it'll be an abysmal failure."
Quote:
You're simply making things up.
That statement is itself an example of your making stuff up.
05-03-2012 05:44 PM
gmonasco
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJJrS
posters have every right to be upset.
Really? Did Replicel do anything that caused anyone to lose hair? Is being hypercritical of one of the few companies actually engaged in hair loss treatment research likely to inspire further efforts along those lines?
05-03-2012 06:04 PM
JJJJrS
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmonasco
Really? Did Replicel do anything that caused anyone to lose hair?
Again, you're selectively quoting my posts. When the CEO appears on interviews claiming that they fully expect to exceed >20% growth, when a bunch of websites and analysts are paid to promote the product as a cure for hair loss, and then results are released which show absolutely no tangible growth, of course people aren't going to be positive about the results and Replicel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmonasco
Is being hypercritical of one of the few companies actually engaged in hair loss treatment research likely to inspire further efforts along those lines?
Yeah, I'm sure companies are going to stop their research based on what's written on Bald Truth Talk.
This is a forum, people are here to share their views. Not everyone is going to agree with you. Certainly, there are people on both sides who could show more tact, including the thread starter, but that doesn't mean you should be upset at posters who aren't impressed with Replicel.
05-03-2012 06:11 PM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJJrS
Certainly, there are people on both sides who could show more tact, including the thread starter, but...
Are you even listening to your own words? No you are not.
05-03-2012 06:28 PM
DepressedByHairLoss
Tracy C, I commend you for starting this forum because we've got so many people on here just unnecessarily making idiotic comments and that really detracts from the positive place for hair loss sufferers (this forum) that Spencer created. This really is a positive place for hair loss sufferers and I'd really hate to see it ruined by a select few people who make stupid & negative comments just for the sake of making stupid & negative comments. I'll concede that I'm disappointed by Replicel's results but it sure as hell doesn't mean that their treatment is dead in the water, as some people foolishly state. Granted that some people on here who are disappointed by Replicel's results are putting forth coherent arguments, yet there are many others who are just spewing negative nonsense just for the sake of trolling. This is a great place for hair loss sufferers to keep up with the latest treatments/potential cures yet I'd hate to see it ruined by people who just put forth negative nonsense just for the sake of agitating people on an online forum.
05-03-2012 06:36 PM
jman91
Quote:
Originally Posted by DepressedByHairLoss
I'd hate to see it ruined by people who just put forth negative nonsense just for the sake of agitating people on an online forum.
watching people in denial try to convince others to be in denial should not be tolerated. I want to be positive to, but im not so desperate for a cure that i've lost my marbles, i think that in a few weeks when too much of replicels stock gets dumped and they could well throw in the towel as a result of this screw up by them, we'll all forget about replicel and focus on histogen or accell or something else. i wouldnt care enoug to express my opinion if you guys just stopped going on with the 'this is good news really' BS ..its soo annoying
05-03-2012 06:37 PM
JJJJrS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
Are you even listening to your own words? No you are not.
Just combing through your recent posts:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
Pull your heads out of your butts. Please. You have no idea how stupid and closed minded you are being.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
Pull your heads out people! Call a proctologist if you need to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
Folks need to learn how to pull their heads out of their butts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
O.K., I get it. Most you you do not understand enough about it to be able to see that Replicel's results are positive. Since you obviously don't get it, at least have the grace of God to shut up with the negativity. You are doing far more harm than good. So put a cork in it.
Look, I understand that you're upset and that's fine. I too had high hopes for Replicel initially. But we have to keep expectations reasonable. Replicel is very far from a cure at the moment. That doesn't mean they won't figure something out one day but it's not going to be easy. Until a treatment can offer tangible proof/results, we should always keep a level heard.
05-03-2012 06:41 PM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by DepressedByHairLoss
Tracy C, I commend you for starting this forum because we've got so many people on here just unnecessarily making idiotic comments and that really detracts from the positive place for hair loss sufferers (this forum) that Spencer created.
My concern is that wrongly proclaiming Replicel has failed when they actually haven't can lead to preventing them from being able to get the resources they need to continue developing the treatment. There treatment obviously works. It probably works better than we know right now. They have proof of concept and they know it is safe. However, if they lose resources as a result of all this unwarranted negativity, they will be dead in the water. Then there will be one less company trying to solve the problem – and that is not a good thing. Not a good thing at all. I am now completely and thoroughly disgusted with these morons and my patience has run out.
05-03-2012 06:48 PM
PvH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
I am now completely and thoroughly disgusted with these morons and my patience has run out.
whether people actually believe in the things they say, nobody knows. clearly everyone's frustrated and they'll go about their own way of dealing with it.
the forum is tbt community. no sense to tormenting yourself by being involved.
05-03-2012 06:52 PM
JJJJrS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
My concern is that wrongly proclaiming Replicel has failed when they actually haven't can lead to preventing them from being able to get the resources they need to continue developing the treatment. There treatment obviously works. It probably works better than we know right now. They have proof of concept and they know it is safe. However, if they lose resources as a result of all this unwarranted negativity, they will be dead in the water. Then there will be one less company trying to solve the problem – and that is not a good thing. Not a good thing at all. I am now completely and thoroughly disgusted with these morons and my patience has run out.
Companies aren't going to quit/go out of business because of negative comments on Bald Truth Talk! lol That's totally ridiculous.
05-03-2012 06:55 PM
jman91
i hope they find a cure for MPB
05-03-2012 06:57 PM
Bronson
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJJrS
Companies aren't going to quit/go out of business because of negative comments on Bald Truth Talk! lol That's totally ridiculous.
You'd be surprised what negative input is capable of.
05-03-2012 07:04 PM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJJrS
That's totally ridiculous.
A perfectly healthy bank can fail if enough of its customers think it is failing. There is nothing ridiculous about it. It can happen - and it has happened... More than a few times.
05-03-2012 07:08 PM
jman91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
bank can fail if enough of its customers think it is failing. There is nothing ridiculous about it. It can happen - and it has happened... More than a few times.
ludicrous comparison
does it really matter if they fail anyway, they are not doing anything but getting peoples hopes up/money in their pockets
