The Real Reason Hair Loss Will Never Be Cured

The real reason that hair loss will never be cured is not that wig makers, transplant surgeons, and drug companies would lose money. The real reason is because the general population already thinks it is. Everyone who isn't losing their hair, including most men and women my age, thinks that Rogaine is this miracle drug which puts you right back at NW1 because they have no reason not to. They also have no reason not to believe that all the snake oil treatments, changes in diet, and even not wearing hats will fix your hairloss problem - and they have no problem telling you all about how you should do this and that as if they know better than you. They all think that if your balding, you're just not trying hard enough to fix this problem, and there's no reason anyone should go bald unless they just don't do anything. When I told one of my friends (who is NW1) that I use a pill to stop my hairloss he was surprised and actually said, "There's a pill for baldness? Why not just use Rogaine?" I've also had people tell me that I should just get a transplant. Problem solved. They are blissfully unaware of the fact that I would eventually run out of donor hair and be worse off than I am now.

My understanding is that you cannot post links to other sites on this site. As proof of this general idea that baldness is already cured, please google "Hair Loss Myths: Are These 10 Common Hair Beliefs True Or False?" There's a slideshow at the bottom of the short article and slide 6 actually says, "There's no cure for baldness: False." Slide 5 also says, "Balding is linked to old age: True." I started losing my hair at 21.

When people losing their hair have so many products available why cure it? And since it only happens to the very old anyway why cure it? I really think that there never will be a cure. And that is because most people already think this is cured, or that it isn't a problem worth curing because people live long and wonderful lives before it ever happens to them.

I realize nothing will come of this I'm just bored stuck in my apartment during an ice storm and felt like ranting. If you took the time to read this, thanks.

What is a cure anyway? There's not even a cure for acne, just like hair loss, a dangerous drug with dangerous side-effects.

Balding linked to old age, this one makes me so mad, I started balding at 17, I wasn't even an adult yet.

We're not expecting a cure, anybody who's expecting a complete solution for baldness without any downsides is a fool.

I suppose you're right Fred. It would be nice though.

And for what it's worth Fred I am very sorry you had to go through this as a teenager.

very true!! Lots of products out there, but not one that stands out as effective. Lots that slow the process, lots that cover things up, but you are right no cure. My brother started thinning even before he graduated from highschool. It crushed him and his self esteem. It makes one wonder, if he had a cure then, if his life would be a lot different. I suspect so.

I feel really bad for your brother and anyone else who started balding in high school. Honestly high school and the first couple years of college when I didn't have to worry about MPB at all were some of the best years of my life so far. The rest has really been good though too so I am thankful. I'm not usually as pessimistic as my first post I think the bad weather here just has me more depressed than usual. Plus my ex-girlfriend broke up with me a few months ago and while I won't admit it to anyone who knows me personally, I'm still not really over her. The relationship itself didn't really last that long but she is very attractive and we were very close for over a year before we dated. I remember this one time shortly into our relationship that she learned I used treatments for MPB and she actually said to me, "I don't know how I would feel about you without your hair." I know I should have seen this as a red flag for a shallow girl who wasn't worth my time, but I actually took it as a compliment that my combover looked so great lol.

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Originally Posted by Mike K

The real reason that hair loss will never be cured is not that wig makers, transplant surgeons, and drug companies would lose money. The real reason is because the general population already thinks it is. Everyone who isn't losing their hair, including most men and women my age, thinks that Rogaine is this miracle drug which puts you right back at NW1 because they have no reason not to. They also have no reason not to believe that all the snake oil treatments, changes in diet, and even not wearing hats will fix your hairloss problem - and they have no problem telling you all about how you should do this and that as if they know better than you. They all think that if your balding, you're just not trying hard enough to fix this problem, and there's no reason anyone should go bald unless they just don't do anything. When I told one of my friends (who is NW1) that I use a pill to stop my hairloss he was surprised and actually said, "There's a pill for baldness? Why not just use Rogaine?" I've also had people tell me that I should just get a transplant. Problem solved. They are blissfully unaware of the fact that I would eventually run out of donor hair and be worse off than I am now.

My understanding is that you cannot post links to other sites on this site. As proof of this general idea that baldness is already cured, please google "Hair Loss Myths: Are These 10 Common Hair Beliefs True Or False?" There's a slideshow at the bottom of the short article and slide 6 actually says, "There's no cure for baldness: False." Slide 5 also says, "Balding is linked to old age: True." I started losing my hair at 21.

When people losing their hair have so many products available why cure it? And since it only happens to the very old anyway why cure it? I really think that there never will be a cure. And that is because most people already think this is cured, or that it isn't a problem worth curing because people live long and wonderful lives before it ever happens to them.

I realize nothing will come of this I'm just bored stuck in my apartment during an ice storm and felt like ranting. If you took the time to read this, thanks.

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Saying Propecia is a cure for baldness is as good as saying castration is a cure for baldness. Secondly, propecia doesn't regrow hair, so how can it be a cure. A cure would be something that can turn a NW7 into a NW1. So, you can say that propecia is a way to stop baldness, but not a cure. A cure is something which can reverse some disease. For example, if we talk about a cure for diabetes, it wouldn't be something to prevent diabetes, but something that can bring a diabetic back to normal.

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Originally Posted by fred970

What is a cure anyway? There's not even a cure for acne, just like hair loss, a dangerous drug with dangerous side-effects.

Balding linked to old age, this one makes me so mad, I started balding at 17, I wasn't even an adult yet.

We're not expecting a cure, anybody who's expecting a complete solution for baldness without any downsides is a fool.

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Ya, that old age thing also pisses me off, as I started balding when I was merely 13 or 14.

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Originally Posted by baldozer

Saying Propecia is a cure for baldness is as good as saying castration is a cure for baldness. Secondly, propecia doesn't regrow hair, so how can it be a cure. A cure would be something that can turn a NW7 into a NW1. So, you can say that propecia is a way to stop baldness, but not a cure. A cure is something which can reverse some disease. For example, if we talk about a cure for diabetes, it wouldn't be something to prevent diabetes, but something that can bring a diabetic back to normal.

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I agree with you 100%. I'm not trying to say that Propecia is a cure for baldness I'm just saying most people (who are not balding) think that baldness is cured. Also I am very sorry that MPB kicked in for you so early. The misconception that it only happens to old people pisses me off too. I get comments often like, "wow you look older than 22" (now I'm 24 but still I heard that comment a few times at 22 when I tried to grow out my hair to conceal the hairline) its really annoying because if I said that to anyone for any other reason it would be considered so rude. But for some reason that's ok when its MPB that makes you look older. I hope to hold ground with treatments until I grow into my current hair situation. Personally I think my hairline kind of looks like the governor from the walking dead (maybe a little worse but not that much). I think its a pretty good look at his age, just not at 24. My crown is kinda thin too, but its not nearly as noticeable as the hairline.

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Originally Posted by Mike K

I remember this one time shortly into our relationship that she learned I used treatments for MPB and she actually said to me, "I don't know how I would feel about you without your hair."

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Dayum!

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Originally Posted by baldozer

Saying Propecia is a cure for baldness is as good as saying castration is a cure for baldness. Secondly, propecia doesn't regrow hair, so how can it be a cure. A cure would be something that can turn a NW7 into a NW1. So, you can say that propecia is a way to stop baldness, but not a cure. A cure is something which can reverse some disease. For example, if we talk about a cure for diabetes, it wouldn't be something to prevent diabetes, but something that can bring a diabetic back to normal.

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I wont even bother addressing the first part of your comment. The second statement is just flat out wrong and a lie. Propecia is not a miracle cure, but has regrown hair for millions.

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Originally Posted by fred970

We're not expecting a cure, anybody who's expecting a complete solution for baldness without any downsides is a fool.

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Everybody waiting for the "cure" need to understand this.

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Originally Posted by Notcoolanymore

Dayum!

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I know right? I keep telling myself I'm better off without her but she is smokin hot so its tough.

You have a good point with Fin regrowing hair. I did regrow a decent amount at the crown.

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Originally Posted by Shelley79328

very true!! Lots of products out there, but not one that stands out as effective. Lots that slow the process, lots that cover things up, but you are right no cure. My brother started thinning even before he graduated from highschool. It crushed him and his self esteem. It makes one wonder, if he had a cure then, if his life would be a lot different. I suspect so.

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My hair began thinning in high school but not to the point it was noticeable. I remember some guys in high school with strong recession but nothing like a Norwood 7. There is a post in another forum from a guy claiming to have been a Norwood 7 by his senior year. He shaved his head and was often harassed by security for appearing to be an older guy hanging out with the teenagers at school.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

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Originally Posted by 35YrsAfter

There is a post in another forum from a guy claiming to have been a Norwood 7 by his senior year. He shaved his head and was often harassed by security for appearing to be an older guy hanging out with the teenagers at school.

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I have heard that when women are young(teens), they want a guy to appear older. But they probably want a guy to appear to be in his 20's not his 60's.

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Originally Posted by Mike K

The real reason that hair loss will never be cured is not that wig makers, transplant surgeons, and drug companies would lose money.

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False.

Transplant surgeons would make MORE money. If you grow follicles like Dr. Lauster's team has done in a bioreactor.... who is going to implant them? And with a viable solution like that, you'd have more men going in for the procedure considering you dont have any scars in a donor area nor are you limited to 4-6,000 follicles from the donor area.

Furthermore, wig makers are few and drug companies? Which ones..?? Merck? Because Minoxidil is generic, its patent has long since expired which leaves us with just ONE shitty treatment; Finasteride.

A cure like that would actually BOOST the market.

It's 4000-6000 grafts, not follicles. That would be roughly 9000-13000 follicles.

And the scarring from FUE is virtually invisible to the naked eye. But maybe I'm just saying that because I have my first FUE the day after tomorrow :p.

But you're right, less limitations, more people will want to go for a hair transplant, so more profit for hair transplant surgeons.

The limitations of grafts available from the donor area is the #1 reason why more men don't opt for a hair transplant. If you had an infinite supply of follicles from a bioreactor like the one Dr. Gerd Lindner created, you can bet both your libido-lacking-finasteride-induced testicles the market for hair transplants would EXPLODE.

If released today, the demand for such a procedure would outnumber the supply of hair transplant doctors by a ridiculous number... and that's not even up for debate. HT doctors would quickly find themselves booked for a long time to come... and anyone else wanting to make cash would enter this industry. Competition would eventually rise and drive the prices for the procedure lower than what we could expect them to be initially. Whichever country has a hair loss treatment available first will reap the benefits from taxes significantly. USA alone has a revenue of over 1 billion dollars on hair products that DONT EVEN WORK.

Hellouser I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm saying the reason is not that anyone would lose money. I agree that there is more money to be made. I'm just saying the average person thinks that hair loss is cured. They think that it is easy to regrow hair, that hair transplant surgery is the easiest solution, that not doing either of these things is laziness and letting yourself go, and that hairpieces are ridiculous because there are so many other options available. Obviously (to us) all these ideas are false, but from the average person's perspective hair loss is cured, and that is why it will never actually be cured.

Mike is right. I've had my peers patronizing me at university when I was 20 and so down about my balding telling me that their father was bald too. That when they "become bald", they'll just have a hair transplant and be done with. Right! They don't even realise that to have a hair transplant, you have to lose your hair first, and that it takes years, sometimes even decades! But no, they think they wake up one morning and are like "oh I'm balding, let's have a hair transplant to solve it once and for all! Fred was such an idiot to be depressed about this. I'm smarter!"

Morons.

Like hellouser, sometimes I despise people and society.

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Originally Posted by Mike K

Hellouser I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm saying the reason is not that anyone would lose money. I agree that there is more money to be made. I'm just saying the average person thinks that hair loss is cured. They think that it is easy to regrow hair, that hair transplant surgery is the easiest solution, that not doing either of these things is laziness and letting yourself go, and that hairpieces are ridiculous because there are so many other options available. Obviously (to us) all these ideas are false, but from the average person's perspective hair loss is cured, and that is why it will never actually be cured.

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In your view, the existing treatments are considered sufficient by most and a "cure" is not a priority largely due to that popular view. Although there is some truth to that theory, I believe all three listed below play a role but the last two are the main roadblocks:

1.) The "good enough" mindset as an obstacle has merit. For example, hair transplant doctors gave their patients large plug grafts for around 30 years even though the results never looked natural.

2.) Even though a cure would be worth billions, there is very little formal research taking place.

3.) According to an oncologist I spoke with, making something grow has an associated cancer risk. I believe cancer risk is the obstacle, researchers have not yet found an effective way to control.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

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Originally Posted by fred970

Mike is right. I've had my peers patronizing me at university when I was 20 and so down about my balding telling me that their father was bald too. That when they "become bald", they'll just have a hair transplant and be done with. Right! They don't even realise that to have a hair transplant, you have to lose your hair first, and that it takes years, sometimes even decades! But no, they think they wake up one morning and are like "oh I'm balding, let's have a hair transplant to solve it once and for all! Fred was such an idiot to be depressed about this. I'm smarter!"

Morons.

Like hellouser, sometimes I despise people and society.

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This is why I come to these forums: Y'all get it. Everyone else thinks I'm being ridiculous.

Sorry guys , i have not baldness problem because i use only natural or herbal shampoo from my childhood. I think chemical shampoo and hair gel occurs baldness problem.

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Originally Posted by brandeis

Sorry guys , i have not baldness problem because i use only natural or herbal shampoo from my childhood. I think chemical shampoo and hair gel occurs baldness problem.

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Die! Wait, learn English first, then die!

we can always combat it.

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Originally Posted by lepke

we can always combat it.

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Yea but for many of us the side effects totally blow.

Well hair loss will be cured 100% sure. Gene editing will allow you to change whatever aspects of your body, including hair. So once this technique is available, companies won't work on drugs anymore, and not only hair loss drugs. And gene therapy research is much much more funded than hair loss research. Already we can change genes in a blind and/or paralyzed mouse and make it move and see again perfectly. Just a matter of time. Gene editing will kill pharmaceutical companies for good, because once you change your gene by another gene that grow hairs forever, you won't need anything else. It is a single bullet treatment, not a every 2 months injections or something.

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Originally Posted by WonderBang

Well hair loss will be cured 100% sure. Gene editing will allow you to change whatever aspects of your body, including hair. So once this technique is available, companies won't work on drugs anymore, and not only hair loss drugs. And gene therapy research is much much more funded than hair loss research. Already we can change genes in a blind and/or paralyzed mouse and make it move and see again perfectly. Just a matter of time. Gene editing will kill pharmaceutical companies for good, because once you change your gene by another gene that grow hairs forever, you won't need anything else. It is a single bullet treatment, not a every 2 months injections or something.

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Agree totally

How did you deal with balding as a teen? I'm also balding in high school and it's really tough.

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Originally Posted by WonderBang

Well hair loss will be cured 100% sure. Gene editing will allow you to change whatever aspects of your body, including hair. So once this technique is available, companies won't work on drugs anymore, and not only hair loss drugs. And gene therapy research is much much more funded than hair loss research. Already we can change genes in a blind and/or paralyzed mouse and make it move and see again perfectly. Just a matter of time. Gene editing will kill pharmaceutical companies for good, because once you change your gene by another gene that grow hairs forever, you won't need anything else. It is a single bullet treatment, not a every 2 months injections or something.

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You're right. That's the ticket.

For example, gene editing is similar to actually replacing gaskets or bearings in a car's engine rather than using a liquid quick fix like stop knock or a stop leak product... similar in my mind to the pharmaceutical quick fix. Some pharmaceutical drugs can be lifesavers while others are just a substitute for a good diet and exercise.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

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Originally Posted by WonderBang

Well hair loss will be cured 100% sure. Gene editing will allow you to change whatever aspects of your body, including hair. So once this technique is available, companies won't work on drugs anymore, and not only hair loss drugs. And gene therapy research is much much more funded than hair loss research. Already we can change genes in a blind and/or paralyzed mouse and make it move and see again perfectly. Just a matter of time. Gene editing will kill pharmaceutical companies for good, because once you change your gene by another gene that grow hairs forever, you won't need anything else. It is a single bullet treatment, not a every 2 months injections or something.

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That looks something right out of Science fiction. I don't think such thing would be available till the next 50 years.

I think we all know there is no cure but we continue to try everything we can :(

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Originally Posted by WonderBang

Well hair loss will be cured 100% sure. Gene editing will allow you to change whatever aspects of your body, including hair.

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I personally think this is where it's all headed. People generally like hair so much, If gene editing becomes a reality, I predict a human population mixed with some freaky looking hybrids.

Attachment 36070

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

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Originally Posted by WonderBang

Well hair loss will be cured 100% sure. Gene editing will allow you to change whatever aspects of your body, including hair. So once this technique is available, companies won't work on drugs anymore, and not only hair loss drugs. And gene therapy research is much much more funded than hair loss research. Already we can change genes in a blind and/or paralyzed mouse and make it move and see again perfectly. Just a matter of time. Gene editing will kill pharmaceutical companies for good, because once you change your gene by another gene that grow hairs forever, you won't need anything else. It is a single bullet treatment, not a every 2 months injections or something.

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Year of release: 2145. Honestly, this is going to happen but don't look forward to it as you're not going to experience such treatment in your life.

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Originally Posted by Illusion

Year of release: 2145. Honestly, this is going to happen but don't look forward to it as you're not going to experience such treatment in your life.

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Indeed.

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Originally Posted by Illusion

Year of release: 2145. Honestly, this is going to happen but don't look forward to it as you're not going to experience such treatment in your life.

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This sounds about right considering the frustration factor where everything seems to be at a stand still. Consider that 2145 is 131 years in the future. 131 years ago was 1883.

Attachment 36117

I don't agree with Kurzweil's "singularity" hopes and dreams but he does have a reputation for making accurate predictions related to advancements in technology. The following quote is from his Website:

"An analysis of the history of technology shows that technological change is exponential, contrary to the common-sense “intuitive linear” view. So we won’t experience 100 years of progress in the 21st century — it will be more like 20,000 years of progress (at today’s rate). The “returns,” such as chip speed and cost-effectiveness, also increase exponentially. There’s even exponential growth in the rate of exponential growth.

The Intuitive Linear View versus the Historical Exponential View
Most long range forecasts of technical feasibility in future time periods dramatically underestimate the power of future technology because they are based on what I call the “intuitive linear” view of technological progress rather than the “historical exponential view.” To express this another way, it is not the case that we will experience a hundred years of progress in the twenty-first century; rather we will witness on the order of twenty thousand years of progress (at today’s rate of progress, that is)."

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

As I mentioned, 1883 was 131 years ago. My grandmother on my dad's side was born in 1890. She lived a long life. I remember asking her when I was young what people would think when she was a teenager if you expressed the belief that one day we would land a man on the moon. She told me at that time anyone who made such statements would be considered crazy. We are of course experiencing technology today once thought impossible. I hope Kurzweil's exponential view kicks into high gear related to positive medical advancements.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

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Originally Posted by 35YrsAfter

This sounds about right considering the frustration factor where everything seems to be at a stand still. Consider that 2145 is 131 years in the future. 131 years ago was 1883.

Attachment 36117

I don't agree with Kurzweil's "singularity" hopes and dreams but he does have a reputation for making accurate predictions related to advancements in technology. The following quote is from his Website:

"An analysis of the history of technology shows that technological change is exponential, contrary to the common-sense “intuitive linear” view. So we won’t experience 100 years of progress in the 21st century — it will be more like 20,000 years of progress (at today’s rate). The “returns,” such as chip speed and cost-effectiveness, also increase exponentially. There’s even exponential growth in the rate of exponential growth.

The Intuitive Linear View versus the Historical Exponential View
Most long range forecasts of technical feasibility in future time periods dramatically underestimate the power of future technology because they are based on what I call the “intuitive linear” view of technological progress rather than the “historical exponential view.” To express this another way, it is not the case that we will experience a hundred years of progress in the twenty-first century; rather we will witness on the order of twenty thousand years of progress (at today’s rate of progress, that is)."

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

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I fully agree with the above. I'm sure hair loss would be no different. But...

1) As you know, proving wether or not a hair loss product works usually takes a pretty long time. And I'm not even talking about funding or stuff like that, I'm purely talking about the hair cycle itself. It takes time to prove that treatments are actually working. If it turns out that a treatment is not working that well, it needs to be improved and it has to undergo the same trial to prove its effectiveness. Do you see where I'm going?

2) Funding can be a pretty big obstacle too. Plenty of potentional treatments get delayed or are barely getting any research done on because there is little interest in or because results are lacking, which results in a lack of funding. This will slow down the process even further.

2145 was just a random year I threw out there because the treatment that was being described just sounds so far away from where we're now. I'm not really one of those pessimists who think hair loss isn't going to get a new treatment anytime soon ("anytime soon" is not the same for everyone: some might say 1 year, others might say 10 years), but I do think we have to stay realistic. And honestly, I think the reasons I gave are pretty legit reasons to believe that it's still going to take a while for a bunch of effective treatments to enter the market, no?

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Originally Posted by 35YrsAfter

As I mentioned, 1883 was 131 years ago. My grandmother on my dad's side was born in 1890. She lived a long life. I remember asking her when I was young what people would think when she was a teenager if you expressed the belief that one day we would land a man on the moon. She told me at that time anyone who made such statements would be considered crazy. We are of course experiencing technology today once thought impossible. I hope Kurzweil's exponential view kicks into high gear related to positive medical advancements.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

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Yeah, I've talked about this subject with some elderly people as well. It's amazing how much technology has done for us in the 20th century (and is still doing for us). I always get pretty excited to see what this world is going to look like in terms of technological advancement in, say, 20 years. I'm not even talking about hair loss related stuff, I'm talking about technological advancement in general. Like you, I also hope Kurzweil's exponentional view kicks into high gear related to positive medical advancements. For example, how awesome would it be if someone finds a treatment against dementia? (Note that I'm not talking about treating the symptons of dementia, I'm actually talking about treating dementia itself.)

Damn Chuck, now you've got me all hyped up about the advancement of todays technologies and about future technologies! Sometimes I wish I could just fast forward a couple of decades to see what mankind is capable of at that moment...

I hope that something revolutionary comes while we can benefit from it, but in terms of what we know and are working on, to me, hair cloning is the most compelling potential treatment. We'll see if they can get over the current hurdles, but I know Bernstein takes a keen interest in it.