Is this possible with HST?

http://s11.postimage.org/7almxqof3/mohawk_haircuts.jpg




Multiplication or not - mohawk hairstyle should be achievable

In theory you could transplant all hair from sides / back and put in on top

Since HST leaves no white dots, even if you deplete donor area by 70% it should not really matter as you would shave sides and back anyway

wouldnt you rather have mohawk or horseshoe


Lets say multiplication isnt happening, you can still have 12-20 000 FUs transplanted on top and I think it would look great, assuming no scarring

Try sporting that look during the following events:

- job interviews
- weddings
- funerals
- church (if youre a believer)

funny, I thought about that once, like why couldn't choose where to put the highest density, designing the repartition of hairs to create something you like...

a bit the reasoning they have themselve with the front and framing the face being prior to the crown...

When they say typically a person has between 6-8,000 donor grafts, does that mean that beyond the NW6/7 balding area there are only between 12-16,000 grafts in total? I ask this because if 50% of hair must be lost for hair loss to be visible, is that then the rule for donor hair?

I like it when guys talk about moving of ten thousands of grafts from the donor area…

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...8&postcount=64

…but can’t even buy a test-procedure. :rolleyes:

The good thing is that these lo…I mean..idi…I mean…psy…erm…guys can’t read my posts anymore – otherwise they would freak out.

imagine you getting old sporting a mohawk!! you'll be one coolass old fella...

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Originally Posted by hellouser

When they say typically a person has between 6-8,000 donor grafts, does that mean that beyond the NW6/7 balding area there are only between 12-16,000 grafts in total? I ask this because if 50% of hair must be lost for hair loss to be visible, is that then the rule for donor hair?

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12-16000 grafts in permanent safe zone, whole non balding area is roughly double permanent safe area


max gho can do is 70g/cm2, 14000 needed to cover 200cm2..
if you tell him tht you dont care about sides as you going to shave them anyway then this haircut is possible

the thing is that in theory, they should be able to double the entire horse shoe at least once.

Considering they would always harvest different and untouched hair? I don't know, by using magnifying glass, they should see the difference, no?

means that if a horseshoe is 16.000, they should at least be able to reproduce one entire horseshoe, leaving you a 80% horseshoe in the donor...

And then from 16.000, you ask to do three or four more, to reach the biggest density ever.

You might end up with 12000 in the back and sides and 19000 on top?

No?

in theory yes everyone should be able to get at least 20 000 grafts(real donor loss is only 4000 or 20%), in practice consider yourself lucky if you get 8 000 1.3 grafts


Iron Mans favorite formula 1+1=2 is showing sighns of weakness

its looking more like 0.5+0.5=1

You keep on repeating something you are not sure about either.
it's as useless as IM arrogance.

Try to be more constructive, it's good that we have GC who is really documenting his case, we will follow his evolution, serves nothing to pretend what you pretend with no proof...

You only try to cope with your frustration by frustrating others... and IM on another hand cannot control his little hysterical enthusiasm and for I don't know what reason even manage to convert it into stupid and unecessaray arrogance, no one asks for that...

Definitely GC is the example of good forum member bringing loads of stuffs and taking it from his free time.
IM is also useful with his meticulous work but such a douche, you don't feel like thanking him anymore.

I hope some other people will bring their parts.
I will post pictures of recipient in two months.

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Originally Posted by caddarik79

You keep on repeating something you are not sure about either.
it's as useless as IM arrogance.

Try to be more constructive, it's good that we have GC who is really documenting his case, we will follow his evolution, serves nothing to pretend what you pretend with no proof...

You only try to cope with your frustration by frustrating others... and IM on another hand cannot control his little hysterical enthusiasm and for I don't know what reason even manage to convert it into stupid and unecessaray arrogance, no one asks for that...

Definitely GC is the example of good forum member bringing loads of stuffs and taking it from his free time.
IM is also useful with his meticulous work but such a douche, you don't feel like thanking him anymore.

I hope some other people will bring their parts.
I will post pictures of recipient in two months.

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cadd, you had an HST done? can you give details about your procedure? i.e. how many grafts, where was your hair loss..etc

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Originally Posted by didi

in theory yes everyone should be able to get at least 20 000 grafts(real donor loss is only 4000 or 20%), in practice consider yourself lucky if you get 8 000 1.3 grafts


Iron Mans favorite formula 1+1=2 is showing sighns of weakness

its looking more like 0.5+0.5=1

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If your theory of 0.5 + 0.5 = 1 is supposed to hold up, why did some of gc83uk's grafts get harvested TWICE and regenerate both times?

sure I can :-)

I had one end of August this year, in Amsterdam.
I live in Belgium, so very close to them, very convenient, I also kind of understand dutch, although I have to practice a bit again.

I had 1800 grafts, transplanted on my frontal area.
I was Norwood 3, now looks like a good Norwood 2.

I'm at six months post op so I let another couple of months to see the final result.

Everything went smooth, they did not go to 2000 because one part of my back was more difficult for extraction, they did not push it which I appreciated, means that they care for regeneration.

The team is very professional, I had two extractors, Deborah and another who was fast with ten years experience, Deborah was slower but very cautious and friendly.

We even had a chat when she was digging holes in the second part of the day, I was talking about the treatment, the Grail each hair loss sufferer dreams about, the infinite donor, no limit to recover a NW1 etc...

We agreed that the coming years were promising, she said that it can only improve...I don't know if she said that only to make me happy, or if she meant it.

I was about to program a second procedure for september or december but with all this skepticism and negativity about the technique, its reality etc... I sent an email to ask what can be achieved and if I can go infinitely (money apart)... that's where I kind of have the impression they cannot go as far as I imagined... I became a bit more defensive in my strategy...I don't want to rush if there are too much limits...

My plan was to "Benjamin Buttonize" my head of hair if you follow me? and I was so relieved that hair multiplication was next door, I felt comfortable from one day to the other, establishing a yearly planning, strategy to go back to NW0... but I'm afraid it's not there yet.... so I backed up!!!

There is my story ;-)

PS: I never ever took any treatment, minox, finasteride, I always refused what I considerd as "fake solutions".

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Originally Posted by caddarik79

I was about to program a second procedure for september or december but with all this skepticism and negativity about the technique, its reality etc... I sent an email to ask what can be achieved and if I can go infinitely (money apart)... that's where I kind of have the impression they cannot go as far as I imagined... I became a bit more defensive in my strategy...I don't want to rush if there are too much limits...

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What did they say when you asked them about infinity? (if 80% or more regenerate, then obviously it cant be infinity)

Thanks man, I would be very interested in seeing your hairline before and after...I'm debating on going to Gho for my hairline and want to see some forum member results...

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Originally Posted by hellouser

What did they say when you asked them about infinity? (if 80% or more regenerate, then obviously it cant be infinity)

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When I asked them, they said that you can calculate the maximum total grafts like this: 2nd procedure as many grafts as the first, after that 100 grafts less each time. So if you start with 1600 grafts, the total will be 1600+1600+1500+1400 etc.

Of course it's just an indication and it will vary from patient to patient.

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Originally Posted by Arashi

When I asked them, they said that you can calculate the maximum total grafts like this: 2nd procedure as many grafts as the first, after that 100 grafts less each time. So if you start with 1600 grafts, the total will be 1600+1600+1500+1400 etc.

Of course it's just an indication and it will vary from patient to patient.

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Pft, thats way more than enough to get back to full coverage! Thanks for the heads up, definitely adds to the excitement with Gho :)

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Originally Posted by Arashi

When I asked them, they said that you can calculate the maximum total grafts like this: 2nd procedure as many grafts as the first, after that 100 grafts less each time. So if you start with 1600 grafts, the total will be 1600+1600+1500+1400 etc.

Of course it's just an indication and it will vary from patient to patient.

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are you serious? like you can do this until you reach the 500 grafts?

It makes sense somehow because, you would need 4 big sessions to cover the entire head and then as it gets smaller in session, you can use them to densify areas.

In my case 1800+1800+1700+1600 would be the big work and 1500+1400+1300+1200+1100 etc... to densify...

Still, you need to be a millionaire...

when you see the price and the time it takes, you surely don't want to hear about the possibility that you donor area contains MBP hairs because then it is a nightmare, you can never set yourself free.

Unfortunately, that's a possibility for a fair amount of us.
That's why I consider Gho, the best for now, but the real safe solution would be something like Tsuji Lab!!!

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Originally Posted by caddarik79

I had one end of August this year, in Amsterdam.
I live in Belgium, so very close to them, very convenient, I also kind of understand dutch, although I have to practice a bit again.

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Just one question: why did you choose the Amsterdam clinic? There is another one more close in Maastricht. Any particular reason for this?

Just because of the agenda.
I discovered HST in June, visited them in July in Maastricht, got an appointment for the end of August in Alsterdam, Deborah had this one date available, otherwise it was not before the end of November...so I jumped

+ I really like Amsterdam, tons of beautiful women there!!!!

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Originally Posted by caddarik79

Still, you need to be a millionaire...

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Yeah that's the thing. It seems though that a lot of guys on this forum have done well, financially, in their lives and can afford it. But it also explains the limited praise Gho gets on for example the Dutch forum. Average Joe just can't afford to spend like 18,000 euro for 3500 grafts, they'd rather go to a clinic in Turkey where they can have that amount of grafts for a few thousand euro's. So although Gho maybe is the best thing out there, it's just out of reach for a LOT of people.

I agree totally, at this price regenaration should be guaranteed and unlimited but still, many people could not afford it.
I am lucky on this side, but am not ready to spend yearly big money if they can not really bring someone to a 70 grafts/cm2 full head of hair.

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Originally Posted by caddarik79

I agree totally, at this price regenaration should be guaranteed and unlimited but still, many people could not afford it.
I am lucky on this side, but am not ready to spend yearly big money if they can not really bring someone to a 70 grafts/cm2 full head of hair.

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Yeah I'm lucky as well, that money isn't really a problem. However I asked them if I can get my temples up to 60 grafts/cm2 the next time (they now did my temples plus lowered the hairline with about 1 cm). She replied that this was not advisable since people generally don't have enough grafts to do this (while my donor is quite good and I haven't lost that much hair yet, I'm end 30's). So yeah I was a bit surprised to hear that as well ...

Although, doing the calculations... Let's say the top of the head + crown of an average human being is, what, 20x15 cm ? 300 cm2 ? So to fill that up at 60grafts/cm2 you'd need 18.000 grafts.

Let's say average Joe starts with 1600 grafts for his first transplant (the max they could get from his donor), so the total number of grafts for him is 15,200. So that's indeed not enough, IF you've lost all hair on top+crown.

So the average maximum density that's reachable is about 50 grafts/cm2 (if those numbers above are correct of course, maybe the unsafe zone is even a bit bigger than 300 cm2 ?)

But then again, I personally think there will be some other form of hair multiplication within 10 years so I think it's just about bridging those 10 years and Gho is great for that, so I think I'll go against her advise and will have my temples filled up to 60 grafts/cm with a new procedure.

In my case they even suggested BHT(beard hair) to add into the mix, they would give it a try since my beard is too thick and their .6mm needles might not be able to extract it, so I guess they would target thinner ones... I was like wtf

if you guys multiplying there would be no need to resort to beard hair,

Im surprissed with arashi n caddarick, i mean you guys have very good donor and not much loss but they still too freakin conservative


arashi you mentioned that hasci doenst have good reputation on dutch forums, im sure there must be good reasons for that

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Originally Posted by didi

arashi you mentioned that hasci doenst have good reputation on dutch forums, im sure there must be good reasons for that

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Yeah, it's just a bunch of winers there, calling Gho 'fraud' and when you show them pictures or refer them to threads here, they just ignore it. I think it's what I've said before, they just don't have nearly enough money to pay for Gho so it's just something that's totally out of reach for them and hence they prefer to go to a Turkish clinic where they can have their transplant for a fraction of the costs. They will never admit they don't have the money (I don't see what's wrong with that, it just IS way too expensive for average Joe, that's not a shameful thing at all) and instead they just bitch and wine and claim he's full of sh*t.

the obvious thing is that we all have different sides of the story.

One said that he was told that you can do 1600+1600 and then 1500,1400,1300,1200 etc etc always removing 100 to your next session.

This would be cool if true and also somehow make sense because if hairs regenerate but with 15% loss, it makes sense to go in lower sessions with the time running, to keep the donor kind of safe.

Other people receive very conservative advices.

I was told by Deborah that the more grafts, the best and that before any move in my crown, she would rather densify my front which is the most important area she said.


I'm still waiting for an answer from them about their real limit... I told them that money is OK, I can be a yearly patient... so tell me!!!
I underlined that in their site, they are to discreet about the limitation of their technique.
That they were claiming multiplication and very preserved donor which can only be translated by "almost unlimited donor" and gives to high hopes to patients or future patients.

I'm still waiting.

It's true what you say about the "bridging" the ten years perdio, but at which price? and in the other hand we don't have much choice (I mean, those who target a full head of hairs back in the near future).

Arashi, you really found the term "bridging".

This was my disappointing conclusion of last week.
Sometimes they give me the impression that even themselve don't know where you can go with HST.

But the disappointing was this bridging impression I had, like, yesterday, to me Gho was the cure, very expensive one but still.
And now, he is a tool, very expensive one, to try to bridge the 10 years gap.

AND this 10 years gap is not even something we can be sure about.... means that this f*cking hair loss might be your stress factor for a while...

looks like the competition might be about to come.

Dr Mousseigne, a fully booked FUE master from France is trying the FUEL (L for Longitudinal)

actually looks like Gho technique, he tries the regeneration in donor.
Here in this french thread, the patient explains that he was proposed by the Doctor to try different approaches on left and right.

FUE vs FUEL.

means that some doctors are thinking of catching the train...

http://www.international-hairlossfor...9a5735bd99ec76

Laso seems not very official, like just a trial with this patient, maybe some others but not on the forum.

I don't have more information than this, so don't ask me more, it was just to show you that it seems to come to competition, which would be so cool for us because then I'm sure that there would be a war on who is able to go almost infinite.

If HASCI can give me two procedures at 2,000 grafts I'd be good for many years to come. I could afford both procedures in one year so money isnt an issue for me either.

But money is useless anyway. Id give away all of my money to enjoy my life. I don't at the moment so even if someoene gave me millions but I had to maintain the same shitty psychological circumstances, it wouldnt make a lick of a difference.

But two treatments at around $15,000 USD for a total of $30,000 won't make much of a difference in my life in the long run... but it will make a HUGE impact on the quality of my life.

The good news is that hair multiplication is on the horizon with the work Gho is doing, Aderans, Histogen and the holy grail which has already been achieved by Dr. Roland Lauster as well as other treatments topical treatments (CB and PGD2 stuff from Cotsarellis). There's a lot to look forward to... its just that we all want immediate results before we're too old to really give a shit.

what they told me is my first procedure would be 1400, next one would be either 1400 or 1200...,depending how my donor regrows With option of getting 200 beard if I want more grafts, but it seems like numbers just keep getting down from your initial procedure..

in my case its 1400+1400+1200....


as caddrick said there was only one person who had 11500 hst grafts but he had better than average donor with big head, thats not impressive considering its 'hair multiplication',
meaning average Joe with average to poor donor should be lucky to get half that amount

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Originally Posted by didi

what they told me is my first procedure would be 1400, next one would be either 1400 or 1200...,depending how my donor regrows With option of getting 200 beard if I want more grafts, but it seems like numbers just keep getting down from your initial procedure..

in my case its 1400+1400+1200....


as caddrick said there was only one person who had 11500 hst grafts but he had better than average donor with big head, thats not impressive considering its 'hair multiplication',
meaning average Joe with average to poor donor should be lucky to get half that amount

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But thats ridiculous because they dont need to keep re-harvesting regenerated donor, they should just use non-harvested the second round. Most people have about 6,000-8,000 grafts available in the donor donor area.... why would the limit it to about 1,400-1,800 and less with each further treatment? Why not 6,000 with a 20% drop-off with each following treatment but only using 1,800 out of the 6,000?

yesss Didi but on the other hand you have cases like GC who will probably reach more than 5000 with two other procedures (Gho seems optimistic) while he was told a maximum of 2500 by FUE clinics.

And also this 1600+1600+1500+1400+1300+1200+1100 etc etc theory which could bring us to 15.000- 18.000 grafts lands.


I have no idea what they can achieve really.

Look Gerard Joling, had two FUT in 90's, got three HST 1500+1500+1500 and can still run other procedures if wanted.

I really don't know, maybe they are very cautious because a part is real and a part is just theoritical.. and they don't know.

Maybe the 11520 guy can do another 5 or 10 procedures, who knows?
Gho seemed to said that he had a slightly depleted donor after 9 sessions.... "slightly"... after 11520 grafts.


I really don't know, they keep a fog that is annoying for that loads of money you have to give because I totally agree Hellhouser but still, even if it will not stop me from living to give 9000 € per year for the first three or five years, I would prefer to give this amount for a real definitive and undisputed cure.

Here, I am tempted for a second but also less enthusiastic since I noticed some weird fog and weaknesses.... if you can reharvest hairs twice or maximum three times, you should achieve twice or three times what the best FUE can achieve.

hellhouser, I know, I agree...

The worst NW7 has at least 8000 immortal grafts in total.
If you can multiply, you should be able to reach this amount the least and even more if the double harvesting could be 100% guaranteed, etc etc...


Gho is the only real option for refilling your Norwood at this moment, maybe the lucky with money can bridge and monitor the progress in science of hair in the meantime... but still, it's not the freedom feeling we are all begging for!!!

Get rid of thinking about those stupid hair.

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Originally Posted by caddarik79

if you can reharvest hairs twice or maximum three times, you should achieve twice or three times what the best FUE can achieve.

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Lets be generous and say you only have a modest 5,000 grafts available from donor. This should give you between 10,000-15,000 grafts if harvesting two or three times. 10,000 grafts is a lot... 15,000 is essentially complete restoration.

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Originally Posted by caddarik79

Get rid of thinking about those stupid hair

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I actually also suffer from tinnitus (somewhat mild case)... this is what I hear every second of my life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HIfqyHbKgY

No matter how loud my tinnitus gets, my hair loss affects me much worse.

It's funny what you said, it's real, no money could replace this feeling of ease I had (without knowing the chance I had) when my head was full of thick dense hair... it could rain, be windy, Sandy could come and blow on my top, nothing!!!!

It's so good, you can change your look, you don't hate pictures, you don't need a hat or a beanie, you can enjoy many many different styles, swimming, running, nothing is a problem...
You can eat very spicy dishes, your scalp sweat will be covered by your big bunch of hair!!!

The full head guyz with no MBP don't measure their chances!!!

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Originally Posted by caddarik79

It's funny what you said, it's real, no money could replace this feeling of ease I had (without knowing the chance I had) when my head was full of thick dense hair... it could rain, be windy, Sandy could come and blow on my top, nothing!!!!

It's so good, you can change your look, you don't hate pictures, you don't need a hat or a beanie, you can enjoy many many different styles, swimming, running, nothing is a problem...
You can eat very spicy dishes, your scalp sweat will be covered by your big bunch of hair!!!

The full head guyz with no MBP don't measure their chances!!!

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It can be a debilitating problem. For me... it definitely is. Surprising since tinnitus is known to be far worse than hair loss.