ALL people(bald or hairy) have the SAME NUMBER OF STEM CELLS on their scalp. The difference is the number of PROGENITOR CELLS!
Histogen is trying to fix that specifically through WNT SIGNALING which will help those stem cells differentiate into PROGENITOR CELLS which will then basically "rebuild" the follicles.
I'll go apeshit if someone mentions a "point of no return" again...
05-26-2012 01:50 PM
john2399
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020
stop with this "NW6 will be screwed" nonsense.
ALL people(bald or hairy) have the SAME NUMBER OF STEM CELLS on their scalp. The difference is the number of PROGENITOR CELLS!
Histogen is trying to fix that specifically through WNT SIGNALING which will help those stem cells differentiate into PROGENITOR CELLS which will then basically "rebuild" the follicles.
I'll go apeshit if someone mentions a "point of no return" again...
preach it 2020...im glad someone knows their shit
05-26-2012 02:19 PM
neversaynever
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020
stop with this "NW6 will be screwed" nonsense.
ALL people(bald or hairy) have the SAME NUMBER OF STEM CELLS on their scalp. The difference is the number of PROGENITOR CELLS!
Histogen is trying to fix that specifically through WNT SIGNALING which will help those stem cells differentiate into PROGENITOR CELLS which will then basically "rebuild" the follicles.
I'll go apeshit if someone mentions a "point of no return" again...
Histogen have yet to confirm they are even testing it on slick bald scalps. I imagine because it would severely damage their statistics.
If histogen were waking up these sleeping follicles, and making them grow hairs again, they would have published those macro photos, and been screaming it from rooftops, because they would have the cure, and will get funding instantly.
Instead, the only macro photos we have seen are of 'hairy' areas, and there has been ZERO mention of slick bald areas in this last SID pdf or ANY of the phase 1 literature.
Sure, there are the same number of cells, which maybe someone will figure out how to wake up, but for Histogens HSC, there is clearly a point of no return.
Those sleeping stem cells will not be activated by HSC.
Perhaps spencer will ask Dr Z in the next interview (?), but I have a feeling that question will be blacklisted....
So far, there is ZERO evidence or any kind of indication that Histogen have achieved ANY results with slick bald areas, or that they are even trying.
05-26-2012 02:39 PM
amadeus
A lot of the negatively comes form the younger more naive guys (not that all younger guys are naive) who think they know more about hair loss science and these companies then they really do. There is so much BS being circulated all over the internet about these companies and about treatments it can make your head spin and these guys read posts from other uniformed people and that’s how they draw these conclusions. You can see the immaturity( I do not mean to offend any one, but this is just a factor of being young sometimes) in the fact that some posters were running out to purchase Repicel stock without thoroughly researching the company or taking a look at the balance sheets and income statements etc., for the past couple of years.
I don't think anyone should be discouraged based on the post of a a few negative, uniformed,, desperate kids. There is a lot of hope out there and you need to understand that the posters on the internet are not the ones to inform us about what its really going on. This forum is the best because it gives us access to the latest information on these treatments and it comes straight from the researchers themselves, but the problem is then a few negative and vocal posters take that information and twist it into something that doesn't ever resemble reality.
I choose to ignore the negatively and have added several posters to my “ignore list” who I find too negative or just plain crazy. It’s a great feature of this forum so I am never bothered reading the BS unless I choose to. This is by far the best hair loss forum with the best real information on the internet, but there will always be unhappy people trying to ruin it for the rest of us. I kind of wish they can be kept away from here, but I guess that would be unfair to not allow them to participate and sometimes it is entertaining to read:)
05-26-2012 02:50 PM
2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by neversaynever
Histogen have yet to confirm they are even testing it on slick bald scalps. I imagine because it would severely damage their statistics.
^ that's exactly why.
One injection on a bald scalp won't produce any good pictures which they need to show investors in order to get more money..... doesn't mean that it won't work though
Quote:
Originally Posted by neversaynever
Sure, there are the same number of cells, which maybe someone will figure out how to wake up, but for Histogens HSC, there is clearly a point of no return.
Those sleeping stem cells will not be activated by HSC.
give me a SCIENTIFIC ANSWER as to why it's not possible....
There are data to suggest that Wnt signaling induces differentiation of pluripotent stem cells into mesoderm and endoderm progenitor cells.
Quote:
The progenitor cells created via Wnt activation seemed to have particularly high potential to differentiate into bone and cartilage.
05-26-2012 03:17 PM
neversaynever
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020
^ that's exactly why.
One injection on a bald scalp won't produce any good pictures which they need to show investors in order to get more money..... doesn't mean that it won't work though
give me a SCIENTIFIC ANSWER as to why it's not possible....
Yes, there is science behind the thought that HSC can wake up those stem cells. There's alot of science that backs alot of the groups trying to develop baldness treatments.
But there are too many gaps in the knowledge for male pattern baldness, and gaps in knowledge for WNT signalling.
Initially, Histogen had hoped that HSC would revive 'dormant' follicles, but I think it's clear that is not going to happen, or we would have heard it from them by now.
So ok, maybe they are testing on slick bald scalps, but if they cracked it, we would know by now.
Hope? There is some...increased dosages and compounding might get some joy by the end of phase 2, lets see. It would make sense that a dormant follicle would take much longer than a thinning follicle to produce terminal hairs. I'm more convinced that HSC will prevent baldness than anything else (assuming its safe and cheap enough!)
Negative? All this madness on the forums recently after replicel and histogens news. I personally think HSC is HUGE news, and I'm excited. I'm not sure if it will help me or not, but at least its a massive step in the right direction.
05-26-2012 03:34 PM
2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by neversaynever
But there are too many gaps in the knowledge for male pattern baldness, and gaps in knowledge for WNT signalling.
not really, we already know what's missing from our follicles to function normally.
If WNT signaling didn't work, Histogen wouldn't have gotten such good results. What makes you think microscopic follicles wouldn't react in the same way.
SCIENTIFIC ANSWERS PLEASE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neversaynever
Initially, Histogen had hoped that HSC would revive 'dormant' follicles, but I think it's clear that is not going to happen, or we would have heard it from them by now.
how is it clear??? THEY HAVE NEVER EVER EVEN TRIED APPLYING THEIR FORMULA ON A BALD SCALP FOR REASONS I MENTIONED ABOVE.
Histogen will be a temporary cure for all stages of hair loss. Deal with it
05-26-2012 07:10 PM
neversaynever
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020
not really, we already know what's missing from our follicles to function normally.
If WNT signaling didn't work, Histogen wouldn't have gotten such good results. What makes you think microscopic follicles wouldn't react in the same way.
SCIENTIFIC ANSWERS PLEASE.
how is it clear??? THEY HAVE NEVER EVER EVEN TRIED APPLYING THEIR FORMULA ON A BALD SCALP FOR REASONS I MENTIONED ABOVE.
Histogen will be a temporary cure for all stages of hair loss. Deal with it
Ok, so they've done all this research on a hair loss treatment, and going through the huge effort of overseas trials, without testing it on bald scalps....to ensure they get better stats to get more funding. Right? Hmmm. So when do they plan to test it on bald scalps, in phase 3? Doesn't sound right to me...
Im not a scientist, and nor are you...no amount of reading studies or wiki entries will change that. While some studies do point to wnt signalling, that does not mean it will 100% work. This has been known to happen, all over the science world.
So why would it work on shrinking follicles and not follicles that have been 'sleeping' for say, 5-10 years. I dont know...
Noone knows...until someone gets results. Real results, on humans.
It probably works on mice sure.
Perhaps you can convince me, and others, in 'scientific' terms, why it WILL without doubt work...purely because bald scalps have the same number of stem cells?
Those (DP cells i think) lack the signals to become more mature progeniter cells. You're implying that HSC will activate them, no matter how long they've been dormant. I remember reading Dr cots talking about some kind of bone proteins being needed, as well as other things which regulate those proteins. I think HSC has those bone proteins in it. Of course, they are backed by science, by real studies.
We can read up as much as we want about it, but until histogen announce that they are re-activating those cells that have been dormant for a long time, jury is out.
Them not testing on bald scalps is clearly them thinking its to much of a RISK that it will damage their % stats. Thats the way i see it. So if they think there is risk of that, what do you know that they dont?
I retract my statement of 'clearly it wont work on bald scalps'. Maybe theyre saving the slick baldies for a big phase 3....
We will see.
05-26-2012 08:10 PM
re22
How do you know they're not testing that in Phase II?
05-26-2012 08:34 PM
UK_
Quote:
Originally Posted by neversaynever
Yes, there is science behind the thought that HSC can wake up those stem cells. There's alot of science that backs alot of the groups trying to develop baldness treatments.
But there are too many gaps in the knowledge for male pattern baldness, and gaps in knowledge for WNT signalling.
Initially, Histogen had hoped that HSC would revive 'dormant' follicles, but I think it's clear that is not going to happen, or we would have heard it from them by now.
So ok, maybe they are testing on slick bald scalps, but if they cracked it, we would know by now.
Hope? There is some...increased dosages and compounding might get some joy by the end of phase 2, lets see. It would make sense that a dormant follicle would take much longer than a thinning follicle to produce terminal hairs. I'm more convinced that HSC will prevent baldness than anything else (assuming its safe and cheap enough!)
Negative? All this madness on the forums recently after replicel and histogens news. I personally think HSC is HUGE news, and I'm excited. I'm not sure if it will help me or not, but at least its a massive step in the right direction.
Not necessarily because Histogen are recreating the process of hair follicle formation at the stage of embryogenesis.
