Dermarolling Community Trial

As a result of the recent dermarolling study (found here and discussed here), a crossforum trial has been proposed to attempt to emulate and enhance the results of the study. Members of the private forums and public forums are free to join in and the results will be made public on every forum, regardless of participation. If you are interested in participating, please let me know.

Participation minimally requires a 1.5mm dermaroller and an agreement to take monthly photos. You may have any current treatment regimen, but before joining the trial you must provide your detailed regimen. Participation does not require a membership to any private forum.

You will be given detailed instructions on how to use the dermaroller including how often, pressure, time for injury and ideal model of roller according to one of the researchers on the study who has been contacted.

The trial groups will be as follows:

A. Dermarolling + Minox (Study Control)
B. Dermarolling + PGE2 Daily + Minox
C. Dermarolling + PGE2 Daily + minox + PGD2 inhibitor (OC-Ethanol higher dose than previously used)

Within the PGE2 and PGD2 inhibitors use will be various concentrations. Each group was designed based on past studies demonstrating the role of PGE2, FGF9 and PGD2 in wounding induced neogenesis. For those unfamiliar, the team behind Follica have demonstrated that elevated levels of PGD2 inhibit the promotive effects of wounding and that the overexpression of FGF9 results in three to four times improved results in vivo. PGE2 is known to induce FGF9 over a 24 hour period in a bell response curve.

PGE2 and PGD2 will be purchased from Kane.

If interested please say so. Further, indicate which trial group you are interested in and any drugs you are currently taking. As stated, this is a trial being undertaken for the whole hair loss community not any one single forum. The results will be made publicly available per the organizers intentions.

Dermarollers are relatively cheap, between $10-20 on eBay. It would also be beneficial if members willing to take part in the trial posted their dermaroller as well.

I'll join in however I'll be starting propecia in conjunction with minox and nizoral next week as well. So maybe add a group E for outliers doing their own thing.

I'll be sure to give it a go on my hair line at least.

This is an interesting video about Microneedles and Minoxidil on You Tube:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gecBiXSogxc

I'll be using Minoxidil 5% twice a day except for the day I use the dermaroller. Nothing else is in my regimen.

I use Regaine 5% Foam and this dermaroller:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZGTS-Luxur...item3a7ceaa396

Interesting i have restarted the dermoroller with my new topical and oral regrime which i have stopped using scalpmed due to cost and now on topical 5% minoxidil+antiandrogen+sucralfate 5% and avodart 0.5mgs a day as im getting some regrowth with scalpmed but the cost is way too high and 5% sucralfate does offer regrowth for mpb.

try this link http://www.follacure.com/t/sucralfate

[QUOTE=doke;136617]try this link [url]http://www.follacure.com/t/sucralfate this is the trial of sucralfate for alopecia and mpb

be sure to use at least a 1.5mm roller. expect blood and pain! i used a 1mm with minox for a few months and noticed little to no improvement. There is nothing new about derma rolling, this study just gives us some guidelines to follow. and their reults were phenomenal.


http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1bcdafb8.jpg

I will probably use this in combination with Minoxidil, but the chance is high that I will also add finasteride within a month. Otherwise I would gladly participate. I love the idea, even though it's always hard to make sure people are not using other methods. I would only recommend to also include a group for those who are only on Minoxidil and are not interested in adding the dermaroller.

in that video, the guy doesnt understand how wounding works, positive results are not from increased absorption, but from the natural expression of growth factors post wounding. thats why u need to wait at least 5-7 days between wounding sessions.

Pge2 increases fgf9 expression wich allows for folicle neogenesis post wounding. without pge2 or minox, wich increases pge2 :) , folicle neogenesis cant occur, just scarring that can inhibit growth. This is essentially Follica's method.


yes rolling increases absorption, but that isnt the goal of this trial. thats why they did not apply minox 24hr after wounding in the study, to rule out increased absorption being the cause of regrowth. and u MUST wait at least five days bewteen roll sesions for the body to express these growth factors .


ps 1mm is too short , ive tried this, go with 1.5 or 2mm, no pain no gain. unless u incorporate topical lidocaine before wounding ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Knockin on NW4

in that video, the guy doesnt understand how wounding works, positive results are not from increased absorption, but from the natural expression of growth factors post wounding. thats why u need to wait at least 5-7 days between wounding sessions.

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READ THIS STAYTHICK. this is another reason why you shouldn't dermaroll more than once a week bud.

Knockin...what has been your experience with dermarolling? Any results from a personal stand-point?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Conpecia

READ THIS STAYTHICK. this is another reason why you shouldn't dermaroll more than once a week bud.

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I hear you Conpecia, I'm following this thread closely...but yea, I guess that makes sense. Although I've had no issues and have seen regrowth along my stubborn hairline doing it 3x a week.

I might apply more pressure when doing this moving forward and wait the recommended 5-7 days. Let's see if these "growth factors" really come in to play.

I'm all about trying things differently or modifying what I think is right if something different mentioned on here might be more efficient.

I'll let you all know how the change effects me moving forward.

What should the dosage of PGE2 be?

According to this, the molecular weight of PGE2 is 352:

https://www.caymanchem.com/app/templ.../catalog/14010

That looks pretty light and easy to penetrate skin, should work awesome, just like RU and even better with dermarolling, perhaps best when exfoliating skin and no more than 30 minutes after washing hair since sebum is then produced which does affect penetration.

my 1.5mm will arrive friday, im going out of town this weekend so i will start monday. i used a 1mm once every 5-7 days with minox for a few months around february but didnt see enough improvement to put up with the hassle. also my old roller was a 540 count wich actually causes micro cuts instead of micro holes.... not sure if tnis had something to do with lack of results. however, it was great for getting rid of some stretch marks i had. i was quite impressed. i do shave my head with a stubble guard so the roller should get great penetration and results will be quickly noticable.



as far as pge2 dosage... no one really knows. StoicOne is getting us a great deal on some, like $125 for 50mg that should last at least a couple of months. in the vitiligo pge2 trials re pigmentation of the skin was seen with just 0.5mg daily in a topical solution. so we know that that is a safe amount and that would make 50mg last 3+ months.

Knockin, how can i get on the gb for the pge2?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tdo

Knockin, how can i get on the gb for the pge2?

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its through SAGA... i cant get u in there, i just joined. but maybe u can get dinoprostone, it is for inducing labour for prego chicks lol. but it is pge2. its hard to get a prescription unless u find it online or through a VERY forward thinking dermatologist

Just got my 1.5 mm dermaroller from amazon for 10 bucks. Will use it 2x a week with minox and along with ru 10mg x2 for 1 hour wash and rinse. If this work then this is the cheapest effective treatment to mpb.

Would anyone advise getting a 2mm dermaroller considering it will be rolling over a head WITH hair that will make a 2mm dermaroller more like 1.5mm considering it has to go through the layer of hair?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hellouser

Would anyone advise getting a 2mm dermaroller considering it will be rolling over a head WITH hair that will make a 2mm dermaroller more like 1.5mm considering it has to go through the layer of hair?

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it makes since, i thought the exact same thing

What do you think about this?

LED light is probably bullshit, but dermaroller looks legit. They suggest up to .75 mm for hair loss, but I guess more is better in this case.

I used .5 mm dermaroller for 2 months now, before applying divine herbal oil, and I say it helped the general condition, less itch, less oil, no regrowth so far...

I hesitate on using minox because washing my hair every day due to grease is really not so appealing. :(

hi why not use not greasy minox foam? also guys my mix of sucrafate has not mixed prop and the sachats are powder so it needs to be filtered it anyone else tries it also kane from kouting has said he can supply sucralfate for free if you order ru or pgd2 as he said its very cheap.
I think i will return to my scalpmed and use up the rest of the 3 months pack as i have only been using it with the silica oral and biotin for nearly a month as when i look close in the mirror im seeing very fine hairs appearing on bald areas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ge77inhigh

Just got my 1.5 mm dermaroller from amazon for 10 bucks. Will use it 2x a week with minox and along with ru 10mg x2 for 1 hour wash and rinse. If this work then this is the cheapest effective treatment to mpb.

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Hey man, Any chance of showing the dermaroller you bought? Or does anyone else have any recommendations.
Thanks

What type of derma roller is everyone going to use?

I have one packed with needles, but I've seen others that have the needles very spaced.

I think that's the reason why I'm experiencing very little pain even when putting pressure, I don't think the needles are going all in

Dermajet

Anyone that knows what im using scalpmed i have decided to keep the sucralfate minox till ive used up my four months products but i will have to filter the sucralfate as its not mixed properly it feels like grit on your scalp.
Jacob whats your thoughts on the sucrafate trials i posted link of?

You'll have to remind me/repost the trials....please.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bocaj

You'll have to remind me/repost the trials....please.

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http://www.follacure.com/t/sucralfate

ok jacob:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hellouser

As a result of the recent dermarolling study (found here and discussed here), a crossforum trial has been proposed to attempt to emulate and enhance the results of the study. Members of the private forums and public forums are free to join in and the results will be made public on every forum, regardless of participation. If you are interested in participating, please let me know.

Participation minimally requires a 1.5mm dermaroller and an agreement to take monthly photos. You may have any current treatment regimen, but before joining the trial you must provide your detailed regimen. Participation does not require a membership to any private forum.

You will be given detailed instructions on how to use the dermaroller including how often, pressure, time for injury and ideal model of roller according to one of the researchers on the study who has been contacted.

The trial groups will be as follows:

A. Dermarolling + Minox (Study Control)
B. Dermarolling + PGE2 Daily + Minox
C. Dermarolling + PGE2 Daily + minox + PGD2 inhibitor (OC-Ethanol higher dose than previously used)

Within the PGE2 and PGD2 inhibitors use will be various concentrations. Each group was designed based on past studies demonstrating the role of PGE2, FGF9 and PGD2 in wounding induced neogenesis. For those unfamiliar, the team behind Follica have demonstrated that elevated levels of PGD2 inhibit the promotive effects of wounding and that the overexpression of FGF9 results in three to four times improved results in vivo. PGE2 is known to induce FGF9 over a 24 hour period in a bell response curve.

PGE2 and PGD2 will be purchased from Kane.

If interested please say so. Further, indicate which trial group you are interested in and any drugs you are currently taking. As stated, this is a trial being undertaken for the whole hair loss community not any one single forum. The results will be made publicly available per the organizers intentions.

Dermarollers are relatively cheap, between $10-20 on eBay. It would also be beneficial if members willing to take part in the trial posted their dermaroller as well.

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I'm not sure if I could be eligible for this trial becuae I'm on finasteride but would you be able to make available the information on how to use the dermaroller as per the trial that this community trial you are proposing is based on, I would really like to add dermarolling into my regime. Also can anyone who has tried dermarolling before and found that it helped them provide some details on the same areas i.e. how often, pressure, time for injury and ideal model of roller and also information on how to clean them?

Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sosa56

I'm not sure if I could be eligible for this trial becuae I'm on finasteride but would you be able to make available the information on how to use the dermaroller as per the trial that this community trial you are proposing is based on, I would really like to add dermarolling into my regime. Also can anyone who has tried dermarolling before and found that it helped them provide some details on the same areas i.e. how often, pressure, time for injury and ideal model of roller and also information on how to clean them?

Thanks

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There's no reason you can't try dermarolling yourself, I think it'd be beneficial to see dermarolling + whatever else and take a look at the best results from all angles.

Try it out while on finasteride and post your results! We're all fighting this disease together :)

Would I be able to have a look at the detail instructions though even if I didn't end up posting my pics online? I know this seems a little selfish as effort has been expended to get the instructions so something should be given in return but I just don't really want to put my hair up for all to see :(. But the reason I came here in the first place is to benefit from the knowledge and resourcefulness of some of the cool members on here!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sosa56

Would I be able to have a look at the detail instructions though even if I didn't end up posting my pics online? I know this seems a little selfish as effort has been expended to get the instructions so something should be given in return but I just don't really want to put my hair up for all to see :(. But the reason I came here in the first place is to benefit from the knowledge and resourcefulness of some of the cool members on here!

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I have a feeling everyone will be rolling differently. Watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gecBiXSogxc

I think I'm going to be using a similar approach;

4 times up and down, 4 times side to side, 4 times diagonally and another 4 times diagonally on the other direction and then finish it off with general rolling all over the head. Keep in mind that he says there's no blood when he uses the microneedling, but that may not be a good thing, as it may mean he's not going in deep enough. The theory is that microneedling will cause wounding, similar to Follica's treatment, which when used with Minoxidil will heighten levels of PGE2 and then FGF9 which may cause regrowth.

Check this video as well (ignore the PRP shit):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuXJbqDlNug

You can use photobucket.com or tinypic.com to post photos of progress.

Interesting, thanks alot for posting those videos, that's really helpful. I know this isnt the right place to post this but since you seem to be online hellouser, what is your response to the point of view that regardless of all of these other treatments in the pipeline (histogen etc.) couldn't the ultimate solution for nearly everyone be to wait until CB-03-01 comes out and then get a hair transplant and then just maintain the results using CB?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sosa56

Interesting, thanks alot for posting those videos, that's really helpful. I know this isnt the right place to post this but since you seem to be online hellouser, what is your response to the point of view that regardless of all of these other treatments in the pipeline (histogen etc.) couldn't the ultimate solution for nearly everyone be to wait until CB-03-01 comes out and then get a hair transplant and then just maintain the results using CB?

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I have a feeling CB is just finasteride on steroids... literally, as CB is a steroid, lol. The benefit is that its supposed to be 4X as effective without a drop in libido or the risk of erectile dysfunction. However, I don't believe at all that CB will create new hair follicles, but rather improve density and perhaps work a little around the hairline with miniaturized hairs. Bald spots, I'm almost certain, will remain as bald spots. I don't even think replicel, histogen or aderans could do anything about bald spots. Thats where either Jahoda, Lauster, Tsuji labs or the IBN team in Singapore... or perhaps a combination of Replicel/Histogen plus a hair transplant. There's also Follica which is apparently working on a wounding device to use with FGF9 to regenerate hair follicles, though that is the whole point of the dermarolling experiment, a cheap mans versions of Follica. Let's hope it works. Perhaps we could have some success with minox + wounding + pge2 + pgd2 inhibitors + dht inhibitors.

We should all try and maintain regardless, CB is the most promising though.

I suppose if CB does work for everyone and does regrow or at least maintain, then yes its possible that a hair transplant with CB could be a good solution where some men have had success with FUE/FUT and Finasteride while maintaining their results. Although its still a risk.

Something to think about:

Quote:

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In one embodiment, the present invention provides a method for generating an HF in a scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region of a subject, comprising the steps of: (a) disrupting an epidermis of the scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region; and (b) contacting the scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region with minoxidil, thereby generating an HF in a scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region of a subject.

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From Cotsarelis' paper found at:

https://www.google.com/patents/US201...ed=0CDUQ6AEwAA

What type of dermaroller is recommended for this? There are some with 540 needles and some with only 192 where the needles are not as tightly spaced. Any suggestions?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the_dude78

What type of dermaroller is recommended for this? There are some with 540 needles and some with only 192 where the needles are not as tightly spaced. Any suggestions?

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I think its all the same. 192 needles will basically mean you'd have to roll more. I'd go with the 540 needles to make sure you don't miss any spots.

Hi, i bought a 1 mm Dermaroller, this caliber is enough or i require to have the 1.5mm? Thank you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hal0

Hi, i bought a 1 mm Dermaroller, this caliber is enough or i require to have the 1.5mm? Thank you

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Use at least 1.5mm, 2mm if you can. Follicles are quite deep underneath the skin. No pain, no gain!

Regular derma-rolling isn't going to cause scarring of the scalp tissue, is it? :confused: