Starting from 19:40 to about 20:10 Cotsarelis says (with photo evidence) they were able to reverse the inhibition from pgd2 with a blocker. Im pretty sure this was human hair as well. I think this is very exciting, I wonder why they havent mentioned this more often? Perhaps they only tested it on to small amount of cases, and that wasn't enough evidence to publish it, or they could be holding back information for competitive reasons.
In other words a PGD2 blocker - with a good delivery into the right area of the follicle (he mentions were this is) should be able to reverse the effect of pgd2. That should give some serious growth but noone knows just how much, we will just have to be patient.
Keep the faith guys!
05-31-2014 04:57 AM
moore
That's very interesting. I truly think this is the kind on technical informations we need.
Just one doubt.
From what I heard, PgDS elongated the anagen phase, while PgD2 shortened it (19:35).
No mention about:
whether PgDS could revert miniaturization
whether PgDS is the same agent which enlarges the hair follicles on the head of a toddler through his first years of life and brings the transition from lanugo hair to terminal hair
whether PgDS could revert the fibrosis commonly associated with miniaturization in AGA, or even better: if the fibrosis is just a consequence of miniaturiaztion, that is, enlarging the follicle again the fibrosis automatically disappears (not likely I think, but glad to hear any contribution)
Thanks to you all!!
05-31-2014 10:31 PM
HairlossAt15
Quote:
Originally Posted by moore
That's very interesting. I truly think this is the kind on technical informations we need.
Just one doubt.
From what I heard, PgDS elongated the anagen phase, while PgD2 shortened it (19:35).
No mention about:
whether PgDS could revert miniaturization
whether PgDS is the same agent which enlarges the hair follicles on the head of a toddler through his first years of life and brings the transition from lanugo hair to terminal hair
whether PgDS could revert the fibrosis commonly associated with miniaturization in AGA, or even better: if the fibrosis is just a consequence of miniaturiaztion, that is, enlarging the follicle again the fibrosis automatically disappears (not likely I think, but glad to hear any contribution)
Thanks to you all!!
Thanks for reply, I think they are not sure if a pgd2 blocker can revert minuaristiesed hairs fully. But this is the first proof that they can reverse the effects of pgd2 using a blocker. I think the process of hair formation early on in life is different and not relevant here, but im not sure.
06-08-2014 04:36 PM
HairlossAt15
Bump, has everyone watched the part of the video where this is shown? This is exactly what we were looking for. Hard evidence of regrowth of hairs after miniaturisation.
06-08-2014 08:44 PM
rdawg
Interesting enough but is there something we can get now that causes PGD2 inhibition?
how close would a product like this be to launching!?
06-08-2014 11:27 PM
HairlossAt15
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawg
how close would a product like this be to launching!?
Thats a question we should of got Desmond to ask Cotsarelis .
Starting from 19:40 to about 20:10 Cotsarelis says (with photo evidence) they were able to reverse the inhibition from pgd2 with a blocker. Im pretty sure this was human hair as well. I think this is very exciting, I wonder why they havent mentioned this more often? Perhaps they only tested it on to small amount of cases, and that wasn't enough evidence to publish it, or they could be holding back information for competitive reasons.
In other words a PGD2 blocker - with a good delivery into the right area of the follicle (he mentions were this is) should be able to reverse the effect of pgd2. That should give some serious growth but noone knows just how much, we will just have to be patient.
Keep the faith guys!
Good job picking up on this part and highlighting its potential significance. Still a little hard to tell what the deal is with just this little part, but unless he made a mistake in the words he chose it certainly seems to indicate that by blocking PGD2 it reversed the effects and that they actually saw this in human subjects, which does seem quite significant. He also seemed pretty interested and excited by the idea of following up on this with those existing drugs, which is also really good.
I'm going to have to review Desmond's postings about his conference conversation with Cotsarelis, weren't they saying he was really pessimistic? That doesn't seem to be the case from this clip.
06-09-2014 05:29 PM
bradpitthair
OC459 is a PGD2 inhibitor
High levels of PGD2 present in asthma patients, so a plausible solution here is to inhibit PGD2, which is what Atopix therapeutics has done with OC459. The results are here:
High levels of PGD2 present in asthma patients, so a plausible solution here is to inhibit PGD2, which is what Atopix therapeutics has done with OC459. The results are here:
A topical formulation that inhibits the main culprit behind MPB - PGD2. We can look forward to this before a "cure" is available.
12-07-2014 06:16 PM
97nasa
Very interesting. Hey I do not care to be right just to have a treatment available whatever it is that restores ALL hair for everyone.
Do not want to bore others again it just seems as if the cure I suggested should work. I hope they rigorously pursue EVERYTHING I just want anything that really, really works and ASAP.
A topical formulation that inhibits the main culprit behind MPB - PGD2. We can look forward to this before a "cure" is available.
12-07-2014 06:30 PM
It's2014ComeOnAlready
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97nasa
Very interesting. Hey I do not care to be right just to have a treatment available whatever it is that restores ALL hair for everyone.
Do not want to bore others again it just seems as if the cure I suggested should work. I hope they rigorously pursue EVERYTHING I just want anything that really, really works and ASAP.
We're all in the same boat, buddy. However, the nature of this industry is slow moving.
12-08-2014 01:03 AM
HairlossAt15
Quote:
Originally Posted by It's2014ComeOnAlready
Oh, he knows.
How do you know?
12-08-2014 07:17 AM
Jonathan
At around 22:50 in the video the doctor says that at least 7 companies developed PGD2 inhibitors (against asthma) already. I don't fully understand what he says, since my English and general knowledge is not good enough but if there are safe asthma drugs out there, why are we not trying and rubbing them into our heads right now?! It would be nice if any of the more knowledgeable members could look into this and share their thoughts.
We are close now, I can feel it! Soon one of all the researches that are going on parallel will come with a huge breakthrough.
12-08-2014 07:52 AM
35YrsAfter
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by It's2014ComeOnAlready
Oh, he knows.
I wonder if ATOPIX knows a very effective treatment for MPB could be worth billions. Attachment 36468
Chuck
12-08-2014 09:39 AM
Hairismylife
So mpb is caused by Dht or Pgd2?
Pgd2 theory is overriding Dht doctrine?
12-08-2014 10:39 AM
It's2014ComeOnAlready
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairismylife
So mpb is caused by Dht or Pgd2?
Pgd2 theory is overriding Dht doctrine?
From what I understand, both an excess of pgd2 on the scalp as well as DHT are testosterone dependent. If Cotsarelis is confident that blocking PGD2 will let you be able to keep your hair, then I really don't care which one it is. I'm just tired of using fin.
12-08-2014 10:41 AM
hellouser
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairismylife
So mpb is caused by Dht or Pgd2?
Pgd2 theory is overriding Dht doctrine?
MPB suffers at the effects of DHT and PGD2 overexpression. Reversing the two does NOT reverse hair loss. There's more thats going on with MPB anyway;
Upregulation of DKK1 and arachidonic acid. Then downregulation of PGE2, CD200 and CD34 progenitor cells.
You'd need to combat all that. Latanoprost has been known to work on hair by working on the PGF2 and PGE2 receptor and the stuff had worked quite well on diffuse thinners.
12-08-2014 10:44 AM
It's2014ComeOnAlready
Quote:
Originally Posted by HairlossAt15
How do you know?
Because I've read a lot of the literature that's available on his an Garza's work. Cots and his team know everything they will need to know in order to successfully bring a treatment to market. That's the impression I got, and just because Follica is tight-lipped doesn't mean things aren't happening. Their discovery is worth billions, and there's no way they're not very close to releasing something given all the information about his work that we have.
12-08-2014 11:56 AM
FearTheLoss
Quote:
Originally Posted by It's2014ComeOnAlready
Because I've read a lot of the literature that's available on his an Garza's work. Cots and his team know everything they will need to know in order to successfully bring a treatment to market. That's the impression I got, and just because Follica is tight-lipped doesn't mean things aren't happening. Their discovery is worth billions, and there's no way they're not very close to releasing something given all the information about his work that we have.
They aren't in any clinical trials right now, so I don't see how they could be close to releasing something.
12-08-2014 12:02 PM
joely
Quote:
Originally Posted by It's2014ComeOnAlready
Because I've read a lot of the literature that's available on his an Garza's work. Cots and his team know everything they will need to know in order to successfully bring a treatment to market. That's the impression I got, and just because Follica is tight-lipped doesn't mean things aren't happening. Their discovery is worth billions, and there's no way they're not very close to releasing something given all the information about his work that we have.
We were all of the impression they were very close to releasing something until the World Hair Conference, and we realised they wree way off, Cots told desmond that he needs 20 Million and more years of work before releasing anything
12-08-2014 12:24 PM
It's2014ComeOnAlready
Quote:
Originally Posted by FearTheLoss
They aren't in any clinical trials right now, so I don't see how they could be close to releasing something.
I understand that that's what they've been saying. I find it very hard to believe that's the case, because this discovery is a potential one-stop shop to prevent hair loss in men and women. NO other drug will be able to compete, if what I understand about PGD2 inhibition is true. BILLIONS of dollars per year, BILLIONS. I guess no one in America wants to make BILLIONS.
12-08-2014 12:27 PM
Hairismylife
Quote:
Originally Posted by It's2014ComeOnAlready
I understand that that's what they've been saying. I find it very hard to believe that's the case, because this discovery is a potential one-stop shop to prevent hair loss in men and women. NO other drug will be able to compete, if what I understand about PGD2 inhibition is true. BILLIONS of dollars per year, BILLIONS. I guess no one in America wants to make BILLIONS.
Cots patent it already?
12-08-2014 12:32 PM
It's2014ComeOnAlready
Quote:
Originally Posted by joely
We were all of the impression they were very close to releasing something until the World Hair Conference, and we realised they wree way off, Cots told desmond that he needs 20 Million and more years of work before releasing anything
Oh, please. That was nothing but misinformation. The actual quote goes something like this: "$2 million will bring a treatment that's more effective that minoxidil and propecia, $20 million would bring the type of funding needed to give a bald person a full head of hair, but will take more years to achieve."
They don't have $2 million for a drug that's more effective that minoxidil and propecia? I understand puretech ventures received $55 million for a number of treatments in their pipeline, and follica wasn't mentioned. So you mean to tell me they have a drug that could solve hair loss potentially for both men and women, with no sexual side effects, that could bring in billions every year, and they're too cheap to shell out $2 million for it? Then they are the biggest morons history has every known.
12-08-2014 12:34 PM
Hairismylife
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellouser
MPB suffers at the effects of DHT and PGD2 overexpression. Reversing the two does NOT reverse hair loss. There's more thats going on with MPB anyway;
Upregulation of DKK1 and arachidonic acid. Then downregulation of PGE2, CD200 and CD34 progenitor cells.
You'd need to combat all that. Latanoprost has been known to work on hair by working on the PGF2 and PGE2 receptor and the stuff had worked quite well on diffuse thinners.
But you still could get regrowth with RU and minox, combating DHT only.
12-08-2014 12:36 PM
hellouser
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairismylife
But you still could get regrowth with RU and minox, combating DHT only.
Its not good enough and doesnt work for everyone anyway. Plus,its a bandaid solution.
12-08-2014 01:08 PM
35YrsAfter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairismylife
So mpb is caused by Dht or Pgd2?
Pgd2 theory is overriding Dht doctrine?
My theory from my observations:
About a month ago, while I was present during the extraction of beard grafts, Dr. Cole commented that he rarely sees a beard hair in telogen. When you press on the chin where beard growth is generally thick and healthy, notice how there is a "spongy" thick adipose layer. Valerie Horsley's Yale hair growth study indicates the adipose layer plays a role in signaling the release of blood platelet growth factors to nourish hair follicles. Balding scalp has a reduced layer of fat. The reduction in growth factors sends the hair into an extended (resting) telogen phase. Extended telogen may trigger an over production of prostaglandin D2. Prostaglandin D2 can induce apoptosis in other parts of the body. Apoptosis and Prostaglandin D2 have been shown to play a role in normal hair cycles on a male scalp not affected by Androgenic Alopecia. Constantly hammering healthy hair follicles with PGD2 can't be good. When mice were injected with PGD2, they lost hair. George Cotsarelis believes it's the imbalance that's responsible for MPB. Perhaps like a leafless deciduous tree stuck in winter mode because it lacks the pro-growth factors normally associated with Spring and Summer. Of course without leaves, the tree will wither and die.
35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck
12-08-2014 01:41 PM
Swooping
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35YrsAfter
My theory from my observations:
About a month ago, while I was present during the extraction of beard grafts, Dr. Cole commented that he rarely sees a beard hair in telogen. When you press on the chin where beard growth is generally thick and healthy, notice how there is a "spongy" thick adipose layer. Valerie Horsley's Yale hair growth study indicates the adipose layer plays a role in signaling the release of blood platelet growth factors to nourish hair follicles. Balding scalp has a reduced layer of fat. The reduction in growth factors sends the hair into an extended (resting) telogen phase. Extended telogen may trigger an over production of prostaglandin D2. Prostaglandin D2 can induce apoptosis in other parts of the body. Apoptosis and Prostaglandin D2 have been shown to play a role in normal hair cycles on a male scalp not affected by Androgenic Alopecia. Constantly hammering healthy hair follicles with PGD2 can't be good. When mice were injected with PGD2, they lost hair. George Cotsarelis believes it's the imbalance that's responsible for MPB. Perhaps like a leafless deciduous tree stuck in winter mode because it lacks the pro-growth factors normally associated with Spring and Summer. Of course without leaves, the tree will wither and die.
35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck
This is because in anagen there is a huge increase of adipose tissue alongside vascularization this subsequently leads to a thicker dermis, in telogen this diminishes greatly.
This is because in anagen there is a huge increase of adipose tissue alongside vascularization this subsequently leads to a thicker dermis, in telogen this diminishes greatly.
So it seems that hair follicles can only grow under certain conditions. Over expressed pgd2 creates an environment where hairs cannot grow. THIS is the best preventative treatment possible. This thread should be over 50 pages long because it's the most exciting avenue for prevention and maintenance. Yet, people on here are cold about it because Cotsarelis was coy when asked questions about his potential money making machine from some guy from a hair loss forum. They're not bothered by not letting us have any information or updates on their product because they don't answer to us. If something that will create billions annually and will actually solve the problem for most but isn't going to be released, then we live in an alternate universe where smart people are dumb, and rubbing an onion on your head actually works for mpb.
I'll say it once more: I'm convinced a PGD2 topical inhibitor will come out soon. Given the timeline, and availability of fda approved drugs, the incentive, and the length of time that has already passed, it's bound to be soon.
12-08-2014 04:27 PM
FearTheLoss
Quote:
Originally Posted by It's2014ComeOnAlready
Oh, please. That was nothing but misinformation. The actual quote goes something like this: "$2 million will bring a treatment that's more effective that minoxidil and propecia, $20 million would bring the type of funding needed to give a bald person a full head of hair, but will take more years to achieve."
They don't have $2 million for a drug that's more effective that minoxidil and propecia? I understand puretech ventures received $55 million for a number of treatments in their pipeline, and follica wasn't mentioned. So you mean to tell me they have a drug that could solve hair loss potentially for both men and women, with no sexual side effects, that could bring in billions every year, and they're too cheap to shell out $2 million for it? Then they are the biggest morons history has every known.
This is true. I'd guess Cot's failed and that's why follica isn't getting any money. They probably threw in the towel with him after all these years of false promises. He's been quiet for awhile now, and they lost their president a couple months after he made a exciting release on the potential of their technology. Unfortunately, I think they're out of the game and we will see new hair loss researchers that replace old cot's. Further, he was extremely pessimistic to desmond in his interview.
12-08-2014 04:40 PM
hellouser
Quote:
Originally Posted by It's2014ComeOnAlready
Oh, please. That was nothing but misinformation. The actual quote goes something like this: "$2 million will bring a treatment that's more effective that minoxidil and propecia, $20 million would bring the type of funding needed to give a bald person a full head of hair, but will take more years to achieve."
They don't have $2 million for a drug that's more effective that minoxidil and propecia? I understand puretech ventures received $55 million for a number of treatments in their pipeline, and follica wasn't mentioned. So you mean to tell me they have a drug that could solve hair loss potentially for both men and women, with no sexual side effects, that could bring in billions every year, and they're too cheap to shell out $2 million for it? Then they are the biggest morons history has every known.
This comment needs to be sent to Daphne Zohar, she's the founder of Puretech Ventures.
12-08-2014 05:13 PM
It's2014ComeOnAlready
Quote:
Originally Posted by FearTheLoss
This is true. I'd guess Cot's failed and that's why follica isn't getting any money. They probably threw in the towel with him after all these years of false promises. He's been quiet for awhile now, and they lost their president a couple months after he made a exciting release on the potential of their technology. Unfortunately, I think they're out of the game and we will see new hair loss researchers that replace old cot's. Further, he was extremely pessimistic to desmond in his interview.
I don't understand the thinking that just because we aren't getting pieces of news from them, it means they're "out of the game."
The science is in the discovery of PGD2 causing hair loss, the theory has been tested, and there are drugs that already block the receptor. Giving too revealing hints to others about their methods, progress, funding etc. would be counter-productive despite how much we want it. Regarding Desmond's encounter with Cots, I believe it makes sense for him to be cold and withholding. The guy is trying to cure baldness, doesn't really give interviews, and needs to be protective of their work.
12-08-2014 05:24 PM
It's2014ComeOnAlready
By the way, if you didn't watch the presentation it shows that they could reverse the inhibition of hair growth with a blocker, and it was human hair. So, it works.
12-08-2014 05:26 PM
Hairismylife
I see kane has Pgd2 inhibitor available, worth a trial?
12-08-2014 05:39 PM
inbrugge
So what can I use off the shelf to reverse PGD2 inhibition?
12-08-2014 05:40 PM
Kudu
Quote:
Originally Posted by inbrugge
So what can I use off the shelf to reverse PGD2 inhibition?
