DHT reduction by fin

[IrishMarshmallow]

Thanks for the link and the specific research you made.

Have you tested your DHT levels after switching to dut? Were they any different than when you were on fin?

And no, I didn't test for free T, but I did have ~7% T increase in two months.

Np buddy happy to see you are taking all the right steps to attack your hairloss.

Since the DHT tests sensitivity limit is so high, another better indicator of fin/dut working may be your Free Testosterone results. Did you get Free T tested? Did it go up? It should go up in the 5-12% range.

I was on fin for a year and didn't feel like it was doing much. Once I started dut my facial hair growth started reducing pretty fast and I knew that was a good sign. 3+ Years now and my hairloss is stable.

''The PCPT trial reported that finasteride treatment in men followed over seven years resulted in a significant decrease in the overall rates of prostate cancer, but also in a significant increase in the rates of high-grade prostate tumors (Thompson et al. 2003). This unexpected finding of an increase in high grade prostate cancer rate in the PCPT may, at least partially, be explained by the presence of specific SRD5A2 variants (like A49T) in a subset of the study population that are not efficiently inhibited by finasteride. For individuals carrying the A49T allele, dutasteride might have been a better choice (Table 2⇑ versus Table 1⇑). Thus, future trials such as the PCPT and treatment protocols using 5α-reductase inhibitors should consider genotyping men for SRD5A2 variants. In fact, we note that the pharmacogenetic inhibition increases for finasteride with time (Table 1⇑) while it decreases for dutasteride (Table 2⇑). This may suggest that dutasteride has a ‘tighter’ range for allelic and somatic variants, which may lessen the still considerable impact of pharmacogenetic variation in vitro. Thus, this compound may be generally better tolerated in vivo as well.''

This was the original study I read wrt to fin/dut and genotyopes ---->http://jme.endocrinology-journals.or.../34/3/617.full

I emailed the authors of it and they told me that the DHT tests are not reliable and that dut will work regardless of genotype while fin does not work well for everybody.

[Dan26]

Np buddy happy to see you are taking all the right steps to attack your hairloss.

Since the DHT tests sensitivity limit is so high, another better indicator of fin/dut working may be your Free Testosterone results. Did you get Free T tested? Did it go up? It should go up in the 5-12% range.

I was on fin for a year and didn't feel like it was doing much. Once I started dut my facial hair growth started reducing pretty fast and I knew that was a good sign. 3+ Years now and my hairloss is stable.

''The PCPT trial reported that finasteride treatment in men followed over seven years resulted in a significant decrease in the overall rates of prostate cancer, but also in a significant increase in the rates of high-grade prostate tumors (Thompson et al. 2003). This unexpected finding of an increase in high grade prostate cancer rate in the PCPT may, at least partially, be explained by the presence of specific SRD5A2 variants (like A49T) in a subset of the study population that are not efficiently inhibited by finasteride. For individuals carrying the A49T allele, dutasteride might have been a better choice (Table 2⇑ versus Table 1⇑). Thus, future trials such as the PCPT and treatment protocols using 5α-reductase inhibitors should consider genotyping men for SRD5A2 variants. In fact, we note that the pharmacogenetic inhibition increases for finasteride with time (Table 1⇑) while it decreases for dutasteride (Table 2⇑). This may suggest that dutasteride has a ‘tighter’ range for allelic and somatic variants, which may lessen the still considerable impact of pharmacogenetic variation in vitro. Thus, this compound may be generally better tolerated in vivo as well.''

This was the original study I read wrt to fin/dut and genotyopes ---->http://jme.endocrinology-journals.or.../34/3/617.full

I emailed the authors of it and they told me that the DHT tests are not reliable and that dut will work regardless of genotype while fin does not work well for everybody.

[IrishMarshmallow]

PSA levels are 12% lower than the baseline two months ago. DHT 4%.
Since I have no visible results, I guess I will switch to avodart as well...

Does that sound like your story? What were your results on both fin and dut?

Thanks and sorry for so many questions

Yes the DHT test is flawed you need a DHT-g test or even just a PSA to double check the fin is actually working. There is a small chance you are a rare phenotype that fin does not work for. I ended up just going on dut because it works for all genotypes.

[IrishMarshmallow]

According to this article (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16382684), response to finasteride is predetermined by the number of GAC repeats in AR-gene. So I have did just that (ordered DNA sequencing), need to wait 18 days for my results. Response to fin is lower in those with number > 22.

Also, thanks, I'm going to see PSA results in a few hours and will compare with baseline.

Also could you please explain shortly why you eventually decided to switch to dut?

Thank you.

Yes the DHT test is flawed you need a DHT-g test or even just a PSA to double check the fin is actually working. There is a small chance you are a rare phenotype that fin does not work for. I ended up just going on dut because it works for all genotypes.

[Dan26]

Yes the DHT test is flawed you need a DHT-g test or even just a PSA to double check the fin is actually working. There is a small chance you are a rare phenotype that fin does not work for. I ended up just going on dut because it works for all genotypes.

[IrishMarshmallow]

Did you get any answers? The same thing happened to me, 2 months on fin only ~4% DHT drop.

[Dan26]

Your special ability is to go from handsome to unattractive in a few years.

lmao

basically....

I'm gonna get to the bottom of this. Already contacted some experts in search for explanations.

I'll def post back if I get some answers.

[Notcoolanymore]

I am a mutant...

Your special ability is to go from handsome to unattractive in a few years.

[Dan26]

Another Update...

I've been taking dut 1mg ED for 10 days then 0.5mg/day since for a month

Got another set of blood tests

and STILL NO DHT REDUCTION

I am a mutant...

Also will be nw6 in the near future

RIP my follicles

[Dan26]

Been taking 1.25mg ED since October, my DHT is still the same -_-

[Dan26]

I know it's only been 60 days but have you had any positive results at all despite only getting a 10% reduction in your DHT levels? I'm also on 0.25mg per day and I started to get hairline regrowth at 2 months. I'd be interested to know how much my DHT levels have been reduced.

Pretty damn sure I've had no results, but 2 people told me my hair looked darker and/or thicker. Havn't cut it in a while so I'm chalkin it up to that lol. No sides either btw.

You comfortable with upping the dose? Might be time to beat that DHT up, breh. I took a two week break and have been back on it daily for a solid week and feeling pristine.

Brb bro, popping my first 10kg dut pill...

Lol ya I'm upping to 0.5mg/day and going to retest levels in a month or two.

[BigThinker]

Hey guys,

So I've been taking 0.25mg fin daily for the last 60 days. I had my DHT levels tested before I started, and had them tested after 60 days...

and...

There was only a 10% reduction in DHT!!!

This makes no sense...

They are generic 1mg finasteride pills prescribed by my derm and from local pharmacy...

You comfortable with upping the dose? Might be time to beat that DHT up, breh. I took a two week break and have been back on it daily for a solid week and feeling pristine.

[DanWS]

I know it's only been 60 days but have you had any positive results at all despite only getting a 10% reduction in your DHT levels? I'm also on 0.25mg per day and I started to get hairline regrowth at 2 months. I'd be interested to know how much my DHT levels have been reduced.

[burtandernie]

Yeah so propecia is far from a perfect DHT inhibitor so its not representative of what stopping androgens could do. Even Dut while inhibiting a lot more DHT also spikes your T a lot more. Both harm hair.

[Dan26]

How much is DHT suppose to be lowered by taking the full 1mg of fin. I thought it was somewhere near 60%. Don't quote me on that, but I don't think fin completely eliminates DHT.

Based on what I've read, ya 1mg should reduce it by up to 70%...Generally in the 50-70% range

But there is a nearly flat dose response rate for fin, so 0.25 should reduce it by a lot more than 10%