Hair regrowth through wound healing process after ablative fractional laser treatment

[HairCook]

Hi, great thing the laser wounding.

I will be posting information on the potential lasers that could be used, as well as a template (with pubmed articles) that people can use to contact clinics about this...

The best laser to use IS NOT a laser hair removal laser... I will post more info shortly

Well, that shortly is taking you some time haha

I opened a thread about this topic on ***. Would be great if you would share here or there your further finding.

Actually, I wonder why we could not exploit the hair removal laser for home use.
All we need is dmg done provoking a woundhealing process.

I am pretty sure these these homelaser are a) not that potent (they hurt and do their job though), b) have a protection mechanism that lets them not being activated outside of contact. So we would basically just need to weaken it, for example by keeping some distance and tricking that protection mechanism (with proper saftey measurement). The goal should be reachable or not? Goal of the laser: destroy hf. If hair removals laser is weakened, then damage with a woundhealing process is induced instead.

I would leave to hear the logic behind that. I see you not being active anymore too much, but still wanted to try asking you here.
For someone with none techncal knowledge it doesnt sound logical on the first thought, especially if you consider that the hair removal procedures fails not that rarely and it is neither absolut permament (even on the destruction aspect there is a recovery process involved).

[KO1]

I don't think there is any doubt that PGD2 is an important player, big question is how effective is inhibiting it?

[mlamber5]

Very interesting stuff. I personally believe that if prostaglandin d2 is the main inhibitor, stopping it plus laser wounding may turn out to be the cure. Stopping PGD2 would stop the inhibition (stems cells are still in tact in bald scalp), wounding would then turn the scalp embryonic again and the stem cells would be able to respond to the stress because their main inhibitor pgd2 is being blocked. Either way I may be the only person on this forum that feels this way but i think a real cure is so close.

For those who doubt the prostaglandin stuff, I will say this and it may not mean much to anyone. I know I'm only 1 case. My dad was bald by 22. I started losing my hair at 16 (NW 4 at age 26 now). Both grandpa's were bald, my dad's dad by about 30 years old. I've responded decently to minoxidil, not only more hair on my head, but all over my body. I mean ALL OVER. All the way down to my damn fingers having more hair lol. Minoxidil is thought to work through the prostaglandin pathway. Im allergic to ibuprofen.... which stops the conversion of arachiadonic acid to prostaglandins. My dad is also allergic to it. I had bad cystic acne as a teenager and was on acutane ( the thought is cystic acne is caused by malfunctioning sebacious glands, which are PGDS responsive which is androgen responsive itself .) Guess my point is, there is absolutely something credible with the prostaglandin pathway disregulation in balding men and its effects on the body such as hairloss and maybe many others. If blocking D2 doesn't reverse hairloss because the follicles are unable to wake up after exposure to PGD2 for so long, maybe wounding + proper PGD2 inhibition will.

[hellouser]

isnt there some valiant NW7's here willing to laser up their scalps for the sake of science

You mean mice, right?

[NeedHairASAP]

Where to begin.

First of all flying to Mexico can be dangerous. Mexico can be dangerous. Don't forget your kidnapping insurance and don't take a bullet proof vest because they have significant gang/authority wars going on down there. And lots of guys can't afford to fly into Mexico, especially if a guy has to go back repeatedly for more treatments. I grew up 30 miles from the Mexican border and I know Mexico well, and I think it has become unsafe.

lol come on you can't be srs with this response


1. if the treatment works as described.. you go one time, have your scalp wounded, and all the "treated" hairs grow back from the immune/wound response.

2. lol

3. lol

4. you have to be kidding lol... mexico is just one example.... and if you can't afford a trip to mexico than you have way more to worry about than hair.... like getting a job not a mcdonalds.

[inbrugge]

isnt there some valiant NW7's here willing to laser up their scalps for the sake of science

[nameless]

1. This statement is empty. The only issues are (a) which laser is best, there are maybe 3-5 potential types that could be used and (b) which settings are best, there are maybe 3-4 setting to figure out..... and I'm not really sure what you're implying... we haven't figured these two (relatively simple) aspects, therefore.....? we should not talk about this? Therefore we should not pursue this? I just don't even understand what your point is in your #1 point.... if you're just stating that they haven't figured this out exactly... just to state the obvious, then okay... thanks.

2. What does the FDA have to do with this? If it works, I'll fly to mexico (or fill in the blank with 50 other countries) and then I'll have this done. I could really care less about the FDA in this case....and I think we probably all should not care. I'm not anti-FDA but again, I don't really understand why you said this.... The FDA hasn't approved this yet.. therefore? Are you implying we should just go back to talking about hypothetical topicals that may be available in five years? Or maybe we can hypothesize and argue about if AAPE will give us 100 extra hairs or 125 extra hairs... I mean what is the point of saying #2? You need to put more "therefore"s in your posts... e.g. "XYZ is a fact, THEREFORE [insert action/conclusion]"


anyway... EVERYONE! Laser wounding is the only thing that will be available in the next 3-4 years baring a legitimate god-given miracle that comes out of nowhere.

On top of that, there is potential that this can trigger regeneration of every single hair on your head... where as all these other things (bim, HTs, minox, fin, RU, etc. etc.) are things that MAY regrow 10-20% of your hair... laser wounding-to-regeneration is the best bet we have.

This is based on facts.. we know dermarolling works... we have seen campfire man.... we know the recent plucking studies.... etc. etc. etc.... the question is... how do we "do a campfire man" in a CONTROLLED, SAFE, CONSISTENT application?


Answer: LASERS

Virtually everything you just said is either erroneous, half-baked, or of use to only a limited few.

Where to begin.

First of all flying to Mexico can be dangerous. Mexico can be dangerous. Don't forget your kidnapping insurance and don't take a bullet proof vest because they have significant gang/authority wars going on down there. And lots of guys can't afford to fly into Mexico, especially if a guy has to go back repeatedly for more treatments. I grew up 30 miles from the Mexican border and I know Mexico well, and I think it has become unsafe.

Secondly, I don't know the different laser settings but I do know that there are lots of possible strengths. For all we know the correct laser that utilizes the correct strength is not even invented yet. To hear you tell it the final word on biological laser development is already achieved and there will be no new laser technologies coming. In fact, there are new lasers coming.

Thirdly, the AAPE that you rag-on happens to produce the same growth factors that you yourself are trying to produce via laser treatments and gimmicky Pilox. AAPE has been shown to work, it can be secured and it's FDA approved. But you want to produce the same growth factors by unproven and unauthorized methods and you this makes you clever and classless and free. AAPE's limited regrowth is due to the infrequency of treatment. Naturally in the body the ADSCs are exposing follicles to these growth factors WAY MORE OFTEN than injections do. You would have to inject these growth factors at least once a week, maybe twice a week, especially in the beginning when you're trying to revive long dormant follicles.

[NeedHairASAP]

hey brian, do you think there is a chance the place where you did the laser hair removal could try out the laser on your scalp, on a small spot only (5x5mm or so)? would you even give it a shot if they would let you do the experiment? as you had great "success" with growing new hairs on the back, why not try exactly the same treatment on the scalp? what if it really works? you would have found the cure by accident.

at least we should know the product name of the laser (manufacturer and exact type of the device). if it's a device with configurable laser intensity, maybe the could give the exact setting, so that we could do a bit more research on this used setting.

I will be posting information on the potential lasers that could be used, as well as a template (with pubmed articles) that people can use to contact clinics about this...

The best laser to use IS NOT a laser hair removal laser... I will post more info shortly

[BrianH123]

I actually ended up trying to sue the lady in civil court for mal-practice or something like that, because as i said i have more hair now than before. I lost because i signed something prior saying results were not guaranteed. She actually commented that i should try lasers on my head at one point when we were on good terms i just thought she was going for an up-sell. Having said that , I could call and find out the lasers that were used on me, and possibly look for another spa / salon in the area and i would happily try it there. If you or anyone knows any places in the northern new jersey area let me know!

[joachim]

Unfortunately i didn't take before pictures .. So i could take an after picture, i'm not really sure if that would help tho because there is nothing to compare it to. I also have gone back to waxing my back once a month so it would take 2-3 months to get a real idea of how dense and dark the new hair is. My shoulders have black dark hair now when there used to be nothing, but again i have no photos of before so i'm kinda useless. Id love to see if this could work tho!

hey brian, do you think there is a chance the place where you did the laser hair removal could try out the laser on your scalp, on a small spot only (5x5mm or so)? would you even give it a shot if they would let you do the experiment? as you had great "success" with growing new hairs on the back, why not try exactly the same treatment on the scalp? what if it really works? you would have found the cure by accident.

at least we should know the product name of the laser (manufacturer and exact type of the device). if it's a device with configurable laser intensity, maybe the could give the exact setting, so that we could do a bit more research on this used setting.

[BrianH123]

Unfortunately i didn't take before pictures .. So i could take an after picture, i'm not really sure if that would help tho because there is nothing to compare it to. I also have gone back to waxing my back once a month so it would take 2-3 months to get a real idea of how dense and dark the new hair is. My shoulders have black dark hair now when there used to be nothing, but again i have no photos of before so i'm kinda useless. Id love to see if this could work tho!

[joachim]

needhairasap: do you have the possibilities to drive this topic forward? seems you're a good research guy with the right knowledge. we need to find access to such a laser anyway.

[joachim]

i have to agree that the whole wounding approach seems very attractive, effective, and when the last steps are figured out, also relatively easy. it's really only about figuring out the right wavelength, intensity, and duration of the laser burning on the scalp. some of those studies already give some good hints into the right direction.
also, since dr. cots from follica came up with his wounding theories, it got even more obvious that wounding is a nice approach. they even stated they are able to consistently produce new hair de novo but for some reason dr. cots says they still don't have a cure, after all their laser patenting stuff. i always had the feeling they are holding something back.

but all those storyies about campfire guy, or more hair growing after hair removal. it all points into the wounding phenomenon. actually it's not that easy to understand. skin cells are beeing burned off and the body starts a repair mechanism. chemical signals are released at the wounding spot, and the cells are multiplying themselves to repair the damaged spot. during multiplication those cells decide to whether become simple skin cells or hair cells (DP cells or whatever). dr. cots mentioned there is a short time window where this decision is made by the cells.
of course, controlling this cells consistently is the difficulty.

but if a laser hair removal can lead to lots of denovo hairs already, then it can't be that hard to figure out.
our best chance would be to exactly try it with that same laser from the hair removal. if we could have a chance go get our hands on it.
once figured out, nobody needs the fda. the treatment plan would go viral and everybody would find access to such a laser one way or another.

[NeedHairASAP]

Needhairasap, has science completely figured out ALL of the details to regrow human hair with lasers or do they still have to figure out some more details? Please show me before and after pics demonstrating hair regowth ON HUMANS using lasers. It would be a lot easier to take this serious if you had positive regrowh pics in humans. Mice don't mean much.

Obviously if before and after pictures existed I wouldn't be here trying to convince people to look further into this...

The point is: these lasers are at almost every cosmetic clinic in the world. It's a matter of figuring out the type and the settings....

we already "know" that it should work if the right laser and settings are used.

lastly, i dont care if you "take this serious"-- because either way, it's serious.

[hair4us2]

Needhairasap I appreciate your efforts but I think that there are two issues:

1. They haven't gotten the laser method of hair regrowth figured out completely. All the T's are not crossed and all the I's are not dotted.

2. Just because the FDA let's you use lasers on the back doesn't mean the FDA will let you use lasers on the head.

What has the FDA got to do with allowing people to use lasers on their scalp?????

The FDA is not the World's Police Health authority! There is much more to the world than the frickin FDA!!

If I want to use lasers on my head, or my nose or my bum cheeks then I don't need the approval of the FDA.