adipose-derived stem cell protein extract

[nameless]

although I don't agree a lot with nameless posts, the science behind AAPE is solid. however my main concern is the product itself might be a scam i.e fancy water with no active ingredients and expensive one too. if not, then it should work. there is a lot of scientific evidence that supports it.I posted a lot of papers that supports it. the only thing that can stop it, is DHT. we can deal with this either orally or topically.the next generation in cosmetics is the use of growth factors to program our cells. not only cosmetics ,one day we might even skip the gym and still be in shape.its use will be widespread and all our concerns with cancer nonsense will be over.in fact the inhibition of some growth factors and activation of others might be used to treat cancer. I my self will try it but I need a skin injector to use. one that is called tappy tok tok or even jm turtle pin but I can't find a place to buy any of them.

I, and a few others, have tried to contact the scientists who worked with the one AAPE study we have all seen. We have tried to contact them at their stated email address and at the company whe3re some of them work. They do not respond. They are not trying to sell anything. It's pretty obvious that they did that study because they wanted to see something. But they are not selling the treatment. I do not believe this is a scam at all. I think it's Histogen only better because AAPE is produced by the body. It's the hair growing extract produced inside the fat cells in our bodies. It's what nature uses to grow hair on our heads.

[nameless]

I stand by my statement that this is a POSSIBLE treatment and NOT a solution. I say this because in the study published in the American Journal of Cosmetic surgery, the results were mainly based on a VAG scale, meaning that hair growth was based on satisfaction and subjective visual interpretation by the patients. Also there were only 12 men involved in the study and from what I can recall, they made no mention of the results of all the men, rather they only displayed the results of 2. An objective approach involving the results of all the men, as well as increase in hair count in the treatment area might have been more useful in determining its effectiveness. From this study it seems that the treatment indeed works, but we don't know it's effectiveness and there are a few biases that need to be addressed, especially due to the subjective nature of the results.

If there are other articles, I'd be interested in knowing to what extent this treatment is useful, because as of now it is in my opinion not something significantly better than either Fin and Minox, because even though it's possibly a once every two years kind of treatment, it is highly likely to be much more expensive to be worth the benefit.

Here is what they said about the ALL of the test patients:

Results: All patients experienced increased hair growth
from the treatments with ADSC-CM. Four treatment sessions
performed within 3 to 4 months provided especially good
results. Scores on the visual analog scale increased with
treatment frequency. Statistical signifi cance was determined
by Friedman’s 2-way analysis of variance (P < .01) and
Wilcoxon’s signed rank test (P < .01).

They ALL grew hair. All of them. Did some grow more hair than others? It would appear so, but it would also appear that the ones who got lesser results are the ones who got less treatments. That just goes to show that you should use it at least once a month but I would use it once every 2 weeks for the first 4 months and then after that I would use it once every 4 to 6 months for maintenance. I think it is the best potential solution we have for the near-term, and I also think that if it turns out that injecting fat cells will not work even though injecting the growth factors from fat cells appears to work then it will take science years to figure that out and then years from now they will say "Well, the fat cells won't work, it's back to the drawing board." Is it possible that the fat cells could work? Yes. But we don't know that yet. And there's something else to keep in mind: it is not just any fat cells. it's a very specific group of fat cells that are needed.

[nameless]

How can you possibly say something like this without ever seeing VERIFIED results of AAPE on the scalp for hair loss? You are essentially lying to the hair loss community.

I'm not lying.

You're lying.

There is one study that shows that AAPE grows hair. Some people are saying there are two studies demonstrating that AAPE grows hair. This one study, and possibly two studies, are direct evidence that AAPE grows hair. The study information are in credible peer-reviewed journal)s). This means I not only have direct evidence that AAPE grows hair; it also means that the evidence I have is also credible.

You have not one shred of evidence that I'm wrong. That means you're the one lying.

There is also solid peripheral evidence supporting my truth and dispelling your lie. I will state some of that peripheral evidence now:

1. Yale University has established that fat cells send the signal to follicles to grow hair. These signals from the fat cells are purportedly growth factors and proteins and these growth factors and proteins are likely the same growth factors and proteins that are in AAPE. At minimum these AAPE contains at least some of these growth factors and proteins.

2. Histogen uses some of the same growth factors and proteins that are inside AAPE and Histogen grows some hair. Histogen studies did not yield results as good as AAPE but in the AAPE studies the treatment was injected more often than Histogen was injected in the Histogen studies. That alone could, and likely does, explain why Histogen did not get results comparable to AAPE.

3. Dr. Gardner, who is a research scientist working on the Jahoda team, stated right here at this website that the Jahoda team will be incorporating fat cells into their cellular mix, which means that Jahoda/Gardner accept that there's something about fat cells that promote hair growth. Most likely, Gardner/Jahoda accept the results published by Yale.

4. Dr. Gardner stated that they wanted to use fat cells rather than the actual growth factors because they posit that growth factors are unstable and expensive. They did not say that the growth factors in fat cells are irrelevant; they simply said that they would rather use the fat cells than the growth factors themselves. This does make sense because if you can get the fat cells into the right place then those cells would be continuously producing the desired signals for follicles to grow hair. But we do not know for sure yet that fat cells will be as effective as the growth factors extracted from fat cells are (AAPE). It is possible that the growth factors from fat cells might work but the fat cells themselves might not work. So the scientific community's effort to utilize fat cells rather than growth factors from those same fat cells might be a multi-year waste of time.

5. My last piece of peripheral evidence that AAPE is a highly promising therapy that would likely give us what we want is posts by a man who calls himself Hellouser. You. You have posted repeatedly expressing optimism about fat cells for hair growth. You the person who calls me a liar (regarding my optimism about AAPE) has expressed optimism that fat cells might work and of course AAPE is at least some of the stuff that's inside of fat cells that makes fat cells promising.

6. You are optimistic about fat cells even though there is no direct evidence that injecting fat cells will work and like I've said, it is possible that the cells themselves might not work even though the growth factors from the cells appear to work. The cells are a different size, shape, and substance. They might not be able to get into every location necessary to do what's required of them. But the AAPE extract is a liquid derived from the cells and that could make it easier for the AAPE extract to get into every necessary nook and cranny of the follicles.

[Haircure]

although I don't agree a lot with nameless posts, the science behind AAPE is solid. however my main concern is the product itself might be a scam i.e fancy water with no active ingredients and expensive one too. if not, then it should work. there is a lot of scientific evidence that supports it.I posted a lot of papers that supports it. the only thing that can stop it, is DHT. we can deal with this either orally or topically.the next generation in cosmetics is the use of growth factors to program our cells. not only cosmetics ,one day we might even skip the gym and still be in shape.its use will be widespread and all our concerns with cancer nonsense will be over.in fact the inhibition of some growth factors and activation of others might be used to treat cancer. I my self will try it but I need a skin injector to use. one that is called tappy tok tok or even jm turtle pin but I can't find a place to buy any of them.

I stand by my statement that this is a POSSIBLE treatment and NOT a solution. I say this because in the study published in the American Journal of Cosmetic surgery, the results were mainly based on a VAG scale, meaning that hair growth was based on satisfaction and subjective visual interpretation by the patients. Also there were only 12 men involved in the study and from what I can recall, they made no mention of the results of all the men, rather they only displayed the results of 2. An objective approach involving the results of all the men, as well as increase in hair count in the treatment area might have been more useful in determining its effectiveness. From this study it seems that the treatment indeed works, but we don't know it's effectiveness and there are a few biases that need to be addressed, especially due to the subjective nature of the results.

If there are other articles, I'd be interested in knowing to what extent this treatment is useful, because as of now it is in my opinion not something significantly better than either Fin and Minox, because even though it's possibly a once every two years kind of treatment, it is highly likely to be much more expensive to be worth the benefit.

[hgs1989]

How can you possibly say something like this without ever seeing VERIFIED results of AAPE on the scalp for hair loss? You are essentially lying to the hair loss community.

There's a saying that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and this is exactly what applies to Nameless and his suggestions. AAPE is simply another POSSIBLE treatment, it is by no means a solution like the simple-minded fellow above chooses to believe.

although I don't agree a lot with nameless posts, the science behind AAPE is solid. however my main concern is the product itself might be a scam i.e fancy water with no active ingredients and expensive one too. if not, then it should work. there is a lot of scientific evidence that supports it.I posted a lot of papers that supports it. the only thing that can stop it, is DHT. we can deal with this either orally or topically.the next generation in cosmetics is the use of growth factors to program our cells. not only cosmetics ,one day we might even skip the gym and still be in shape.its use will be widespread and all our concerns with cancer nonsense will be over.in fact the inhibition of some growth factors and activation of others might be used to treat cancer. I my self will try it but I need a skin injector to use. one that is called tappy tok tok or even jm turtle pin but I can't find a place to buy any of them.

[hellouser]

You should use AAPE. That is the treatment that can really regrow your hair. AAPE is an extract from some very specific fat cells. That's the solution.

How can you possibly say something like this without ever seeing VERIFIED results of AAPE on the scalp for hair loss? You are essentially lying to the hair loss community.

[Haircure]

You should use AAPE. That is the treatment that can really regrow your hair. AAPE is an extract from some very specific fat cells. That's the solution.

There's a saying that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and this is exactly what applies to Nameless and his suggestions. AAPE is simply another POSSIBLE treatment, it is by no means a solution like the simple-minded fellow above chooses to believe.

[nameless]

Hey guys,

This is Xabi from the north of Spain, just I want to share with you the feedback that I've had with ARS clinical. Feel free to comment, suggest, whatever, all the best n keep in touch :-)

"Dear Mr. ,

Thank you for your photos.

For your case we propose to perform a FUE with 2.500 hair follicles or Stem Cell treatment with excellent results.

The cost for each treatment, separetaly, will be 8.000 EUROS.

Thank you and looking forward to your feedback.

Sincerely yours,
--
Apostolos Karoutis, MSc, MBA
Global Commercial Director
ARSMEDICAL GmbH
Health & Beauty Treatments
Alpenstrasse 1, ZUG 6300 Switzerland
+41 76 769 65 26 (Switzerland)
+30 69 42 555 330 (Greece)
akaroutis@arsmedical.info / www.arsmedical.info

My response:

"Good morning Apostolos,

Thanks a lot for your time, my idea is to prove this new Stem Cell treatment (Adipose derived stem cell protein extract, right? or is there another one?), due to my business I don't have so much time. Next year will be the best time for me, I want to wait a little bit and read forum members' experiences about this treatment.

I've been in London 3 years ago for example asking in person to Dr Raghu Reddy about PRP Acell and that treatment isn't appropriate.

As I told you, I'm veteran and I've a big knowledge about this "hair" subject.

One of my main doubts are:

- Results, I know that no much clear proof already: http://news.yale.edu/2011/09/01/yale...-its-time-grow, http://www.balancehairrestoration.co...stem-cells.pdf, but, what can you show me to trust you?.

- How many times do I have to go?, which is the time line of the treatment?, there're 12 hours driving from my house to your clinic in Switzerland and I could go more than 1-2 times.

- Side effects?, SHOCK LOSS?, as I told you, I've been in Vancouver during my post surgery for one month in January 2010 and I know how hard is that one.

Keep in touch, thanks a lot and I look forward to your answer.
X "

You should use AAPE. That is the treatment that can really regrow your hair. AAPE is an extract from some very specific fat cells. That's the solution.

[Xabi]

Hey guys,

This is Xabi from the north of Spain, just I want to share with you the feedback that I've had with ARS clinical. Feel free to comment, suggest, whatever, all the best n keep in touch :-)

"Dear Mr. ,

Thank you for your photos.

For your case we propose to perform a FUE with 2.500 hair follicles or Stem Cell treatment with excellent results.

The cost for each treatment, separetaly, will be 8.000 EUROS.

Thank you and looking forward to your feedback.

Sincerely yours,
--
Apostolos Karoutis, MSc, MBA
Global Commercial Director
ARSMEDICAL GmbH
Health & Beauty Treatments
Alpenstrasse 1, ZUG 6300 Switzerland
+41 76 769 65 26 (Switzerland)
+30 69 42 555 330 (Greece)
akaroutis@arsmedical.info / www.arsmedical.info

My response:

"Good morning Apostolos,

Thanks a lot for your time, my idea is to prove this new Stem Cell treatment (Adipose derived stem cell protein extract, right? or is there another one?), due to my business I don't have so much time. Next year will be the best time for me, I want to wait a little bit and read forum members' experiences about this treatment.

I've been in London 3 years ago for example asking in person to Dr Raghu Reddy about PRP Acell and that treatment isn't appropriate.

As I told you, I'm veteran and I've a big knowledge about this "hair" subject.

One of my main doubts are:

- Results, I know that no much clear proof already: http://news.yale.edu/2011/09/01/yale...-its-time-grow, http://www.balancehairrestoration.co...stem-cells.pdf, but, what can you show me to trust you?.

- How many times do I have to go?, which is the time line of the treatment?, there're 12 hours driving from my house to your clinic in Switzerland and I could go more than 1-2 times.

- Side effects?, SHOCK LOSS?, as I told you, I've been in Vancouver during my post surgery for one month in January 2010 and I know how hard is that one.

Keep in touch, thanks a lot and I look forward to your answer.
X "

[downandout]

maybe a bigger company bought out the patent for this method that was used in the studies. Therefore, the reason it was so low key and unheard of. Another treatment swept under the rug..

[158nikka]

Hellouser, are you still using minoxidil and what is your current regimen?

[JZA70]

Yeah at least they're not making wild promises like Nigam did.

What's sad is that he's still going strong at it.

[hellouser]

To be fair the guys in Austria(where Alias went) specifically say on their webpage that their treatment won't get you all of your hair back and that there might be some regrowth.

Yeah at least they're not making wild promises like Nigam did.

[nameless]

keep in mind guys that the treament Alias123 did is different than that whixh started this thread. the thread is about injection of growth factors released by culturing fat stem cells while alias123 had injections of fat stem cells.

I've been saying this too. And even though the effective growth factors came from fat cells that does not mean that injecting fat cells will produce the same result. First of all, there are different fat cells and we don't know if the fat cell injection treatment involves the correct fat cells. Some fat cells produce 100 times the amount of these growth factors as other fat cells produce. So right off the bat there is the issue of using the correct fat cells among different fat cells.

Then there's the issue that the fat cells are a different size, different shape, and different degree of hardness/rigidity from the fat-cell derived growth factors. If you inject the correctfat cells they still might not get to the right locations due to their different size, different shape, and different degree of hardness/rigidity than the growth factors solution. The growth factor solution could probably squeeze into every tiny nook and cranny in the follicles so that means that they could probably get into the correct places, but the fat cells may not be able to do that.

[nameless]

<sigh> that is precisely the point. It is highly unethical to sell unproven treatments. If these doctors want to test new things they can offer them to patients for free or at cost with full disclosures. I am so sick of hearing about all this Whitfield and Nigam-type nonsense.

(sigh) you didn't answer my question. My question was would you prefer to not be offered the treatment at all?