Killer stack for border line baldies

[Tenma]

Androgens are not the "problem", the genetic sensitivity to androgens in the follicle is the problem.

Yeah, i wasnt very especific about that. DHT produced inside the hair follicle is the main culprit.

androgens make a man.

Fin and Dut both raise testosterone, so the turning into a woman argument its really hilarious.

[Tenma]

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[EXprettyboy]

Yeah I seem to inadvertently have become embroiled in this "bloods and crips" style gang warfare where hair loss suffers define themselves by their chosen treatments and then battle it out in Internet forums, with ironic balding themed avatar names.... What the **** am I doing?

It has been somewhat addictive but I've had enough for now and this will be my last post for some time. I will update in several months on progress.

Some stuff on my mind before I go:

1. Did you know that due to the relatively recent development of high speed Internet and easier access to explicit pornography, there has been an epidemic of young men suffering from varying degrees of erectile dysfunction? It's happening because the human brain becomes desensitised to visual stimuli when over exposed to it. So sexual sides may not be related to treatments for hairloss. Don't believe me? There's a reddit group with 80,000 members called "no fap". There's also a site called 'your brain on porn' you should check out.

2. On the subject of women. Their sexual attraction does not work like ours. We respond to visual cues of fertility. They respond to behavioural patterns associated to status and dominance. Basically it's not your hairloss that turns them off its your insecurity. Took me a while to figure that out.

Peace out

[Notcoolanymore]

It's as if they're trying to reassure themselves they've made the right decision as opposed to actually help anybody. I've seen a thread that basically says "if you don't take AAs you're asking for it" which is not true.

But don't shit on it because you want to make yourself feel better about your choices. you guys don't like "propecia haters" but your hating on everything else.

I have read your entire post, and it was good one. I am happy that you are having success with your regimen. Maybe more people should try it to see if it works for them.

As far as your comments above, it can go both ways. If you have been around here long enough you know that the "anti fin" crowd is strong on these boards. They chime in on most threads that even hint at propecia being a good treatment option. It's as if they don't want to hear that ultimately they are to blame for their hair loss if they don't use an effective treatment, so they shit on everybody that has decided to use the best treatment available.

When I come on here and recommend propecia, I do it because I truly believe it is the best thing we have based on my personal experience. I haven't tried the stuff you are using, but i have tried plenty of crap that doesn't work and just want to let guys know what does.

Respect has to go both ways. Propecia users need to respect those who choose to pass on fin. None users need to respect those that decide to use propecia and not try to get them to second guess their choice.

[EXprettyboy]

Androgens are not the "problem", the genetic sensitivity to androgens in the follicle is the problem.

The obvious answer is not always the best one, androgens make a man.

It's analogous to saying rivers cause floods so let's put dams everywhere, instead of building cities with flood protection.

[EXprettyboy]

I can understand why a lot of the posts in this thread are from people upset that I am espousing a treatment stack that does not include anti androgens. They feel that I am misleading young men into thinking they can tackle hairloss effectively with a dud regimen, but this is not the case.

I know that anti androgens will help somebody reverse hairloss. I know that the associated side affects are as low as 9% for dut (Wikipedia), which for some is worth the gamble. Everybody has to make the AA decision for themselves.

But for people to rubbish all other treatments, just because THEY have made the decision to take AAs is unreasonable and also unfair to people who are reading all the information to make their choice. It's as if they're trying to reassure themselves they've made the right decision as opposed to actually help anybody. I've seen a thread that basically says "if you don't take AAs you're asking for it" which is not true.

People are also speaking not from experience but from what they have reasoned in their minds to be most logical. I'm no newb to hairloss, I understand the anxiety, I understand the desperation and anger. But the great thing about a forum is that there are people on it with no agenda only to help one another. Bald truth talk has always been my go to, for treatment recommendations and this thread is an opportunity for me to relay some of my experience, my angle, from my direct first hand experience.

Consider this advice for people who are automatic NOs to AAs. Or consider it people who are on AAs who want to add more to there regimen. But don't shit on it because you want to make yourself feel better about your choices. It's only fair that all the information is allowed to surface, you guys don't like "propecia haters" but your hating on everything else.


I ultimately don't really care if this thread fades into obscurity, because I have done my duty in reporting back, take it as you will. I can't stop looking at my hairline in the mirror for the last few days, I can't stop feeling the strong even stubble on my scalp and I can't stop smiling. The crown is still thin but I know I have this thing by the balls now so I don't care.

So again here's the deal:

6 years treating with minoxidil and a plethora of other things. Started out a Norwood 2 with slight thinning.

Fast forward 6 years, November 2013. Norwood 2.5 rapidly becoming Norwood 3. Visible 'horse shoe' of dense stubble at back and sides, contrasting against sparse thinning hair on top, especially at the back. ****, I think I'm done.

January, shave head with raw. The head shaving is important, you can do your damage with the roller and get full exposure to laser and topicals. Keep your head shaved for at least a few weeks. I saw the shed in thinning patches even with a shaved head. Last 3 weeks, I don't look like I shave because I'm balding, it looks like a genuine style. My temples are where I look with a mirror for a side view and I say definitely improved. Hairline is back, forelock is strong, crown is gradually improving. I did all that in weeks. Previously I've worn hats for months waiting for results that haven't compared.

Now I did say borderline, to me that means people would look at you and have to scrutinise for a few moments before concluding if your losing your hair. in my opinion this is one of the worst stages of hairloss because your whole identity is in doubt in your mind. If you don't wanna take AAs and you're already on minoxidil, this is what's working for me.

[Tenma]

For FDA fanboys, a quick update:

http://www.gsk-clinicalstudyregister.com/study/200209#ps

If this study goes as expected Dutasteride will be FDA approved for hairloss by 2015 or learly 2016.

Dut+topical antiandrogen = viable long term solution for early norwoods.

[Tenma]

OP, sorry to be that guy but your regimen is far from being "borderline". I've been reading studies and surfing hairloss foums long enough and can assure you that without fin or dut (thank god i found dut soon enough) you are going to lose most of your hair.

"Borderlines" are the ones experimenting with spiro, ru, growth factors, cb, pg2 inhibitors, etc,etc. Some of those individuals are the ones getting incredible results. Google them if you want.

Sometimes i feel sorry for the incredibly absurd "army" of propecia haters posting here. Get real dudes, AGA is about androgens, you MUST stop them if you want to keep your hair.

My advice, read the scientific literature about androgenic alopecia. For starters keep an eye on 2 very important recent studies:

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/research/10-year-finasteride-study-first-to-investigate-long-term-effects-and-safety/

http://www.hairstransplanted.com/articles/PDF_Dual_5_a_Reductase_inhibition_MPHL.pdf

With all that said, i still think we need better treatments, specially for those who are at or above NW4.

PS: Glaxo is pursuing FDA approval later this year for an alopecia formulation. Recent studies suggests it could be 40% more effective than fin.

[Dan26]

This is what I try to do. Maybe I am being taken the wrong way, but I am just trying to tell it like I see it. Maybe for some who are slowly losing hair, they can afford to take their time and experiment. From where I am standing(NW3 diffuse w/crown thinning), I don't have that luxury. So when I recommend giving finasteride a try, I am not giving advice from the stand point of loving fin, but from a position of someone that doesn't have any more time to waste.

yes man i agree everyone is diffeernt...if a young guy comes on here and is already nw2 or his loss/thinning seems to be progressing at a fast rate, instead of sugarcoating it, it needs to be stated that you either get on fin and/or minox (RU too IMO but thats up for debate, understandably), or you accept your fate....you have next to know chance saving yourself if you are destined for high nw before 30 and not using approved treatments

remember so many guys on here lose like a nw every 5-10 years and by the tone of their posts we unluckier guys assume they are in a similar boat and take the anecdotes or advice and relate them to our situation...

everyone giving out advice based on their own experiences also really needs to include the details of their loss...someone young or with aggressive loss generally wont care what your fin results are if your middle aged with slow loss nor should they

[Notcoolanymore]

your a certified GOOF if you don't start with the proven treatments....Ofcourse, if you get side effects, get off the treatment that is causing them

expirmentals shoudl only be used to compliment an already strong regimen, especially for those with aggressive loss and/or poor responders to fin/minox/niz/dut etc

i'll agree MPB requires a multimodal approach in many cases, and i wont discount those who have success without the use of an AA...but rreally, your making things way harder than they need to be if you dont give the proven treatments a chance

if your a middle aged dude with moderate/slow loss go ahead, take that risk, but lets not get careless and try and tell the newer/younger guys to go expirmental route, in their situations every day counts! I wish i got on fin/minox 1-2 years before i did

This is what I try to do. Maybe I am being taken the wrong way, but I am just trying to tell it like I see it. Maybe for some who are slowly losing hair, they can afford to take their time and experiment. From where I am standing(NW3 diffuse w/crown thinning), I don't have that luxury. So when I recommend giving finasteride a try, I am not giving advice from the stand point of loving fin, but from a position of someone that doesn't have any more time to waste.

[Dan26]

your a certified GOOF if you don't start with the proven treatments....Ofcourse, if you get side effects, get off the treatment that is causing them

expirmentals shoudl only be used to compliment an already strong regimen, especially for those with aggressive loss and/or poor responders to fin/minox/niz/dut etc

i'll agree MPB requires a multimodal approach in many cases, and i wont discount those who have success without the use of an AA...but rreally, your making things way harder than they need to be if you dont give the proven treatments a chance

if your a middle aged dude with moderate/slow loss go ahead, take that risk, but lets not get careless and try and tell the newer/younger guys to go expirmental route, in their situations every day counts! I wish i got on fin/minox 1-2 years before i did

[Notcoolanymore]

Always gotta be a douche bag on every forum...

I've seen lots of threads were guys say they've maintained only using Minox...don't give a rats-ass what you think....I made a comment unbiased and you had to turn it into an a-hole response...

Anyways -- stack -- the new buzz word for hairloss treatment in situ

I am the douche bag...ok, what ever you say. All of your posts directed at me have been attacks. Now you are name calling, but I'm the douche bag. Read my latest posts directed at the OP. I have since backed off a bit from my original statements, tried to clarify my position, and pretty much admitted I was wrong for tearing down his treatment "stack".

Lastly, why the hell are we arguing about BS? We are all in the same effin boat, dealing with this hair loss shit. I don't come in here trying to hurt guys and steer them in the wrong direction. I tell them what I believe works based on my experience and clinical studies. If I sound like an ahole when I am doing that, then I apologize. All this infighting is just stupid.

[Notcoolanymore]

Well I'm interested in this stack for one I can't take fin because of weight gain so I'm using minoxdill laser and nizoral , to scared to touch ru so not all of us have a choice!

I should not have discounted the OP's "stack". I have read about so many remedies consisting of lasers, vitamins, oils, etc, that do not pan out. So when I read this thread my first thought was "here we go again". I am not opposed to experimenting(I use unproven stuff too), but I just believe in using stuff that has been proven to work. The OP's says his treatment is working. I hope it is. As far as I am concerned the more stuff that works, the more options we will have, the better off we will all be.

[Sparky4444]

I don't make sense to you because you don't know what you are talking about. You can regrow hair on minoxidil, but it is in no way a long term solution, you will continue to lose hair. Show me one person who has used minoxidil alone and was able to keep all of his hair. That's right you can't. If you want to call growing your hair back for a few years(if your lucky) then starting to lose it again "maintaining" then ok. I consider long term growth and stabilization as maintaining. But whatever, useless argument, if you want to use minoxidil as your long term solution to hair loss, then good luck with that.

Always gotta be a douche bag on every forum...

I've seen lots of threads were guys say they've maintained only using Minox...don't give a rats-ass what you think....I made a comment unbiased and you had to turn it into an a-hole response...

Anyways -- stack -- the new buzz word for hairloss treatment in situ

[thechamp]

I don't make sense to you because you don't know what you are talking about. You can regrow hair on minoxidil, but it is in no way a long term solution, you will continue to lose hair. Show me one person who has used minoxidil alone and was able to keep all of his hair. That's right you can't. If you want to call growing your hair back for a few years(if your lucky) then starting to lose it again "maintaining" then ok. I consider long term growth and stabilization as maintaining. But whatever, useless argument, if you want to use minoxidil as your long term solution to hair loss, then good luck with that.

Well I'm interested in this stack for one I can't take fin because of weight gain so I'm using minoxdill laser and nizoral , to scared to touch ru so not all of us have a choice!