Cotsarelis/Garza Genetic analysis

[clandestine]

Alright, listen.

What is this business about Doxycycline upregulating FHF or whatever? I swear they tried to give me Doxy for acne as an anti-bacterial.

I did research, and of causes hair loss. I literally have the pills, never taken for this reason, right here.



Look it up. Doxy causes hair loss. I don't understand.

[Thinning87]

ehm thanks for the explanation but you can try it first

[KO1]

They've grown hair follicles in wounding tests without any treatment on humans in 2007. It's not a big deal to get a few hairs, but getting cosmetically significant results.

So far we know
Wnt - critical signal
FGF - agonist of this pathway
PGD2 - antagonist of this pathway

Thus far it seems that their goal is to use the core treatment of Wnt (lithium) and strengthen it with other chemicals that upregulate or remove inhibition of this process. Whether the results are cosmetically significant is unknown. They also need to figure out at which point in time which factors to upregulate/downregulate....

The wound has to be deep enough to remove the epidermis, and a reasonably large area, so that it doesn't close on itself, so no pinpricks. In their clinical trials they did two depths 1) Remove epidermis or 2) Cut down to subcutaneous fat.

If people want to try this they can, all the treatments are available. Wnt is mimicked by lithium, PGD2 is inhibited by Ramatroban (on my desk), FGF appears to be elevated by doxycycline....and wounding can be done by sandpaper. Don't try to use it on your head, try it on an arm or a leg. You can also add immunosuppressant cream (Tacrolimus) or topical estrogen if you'd like.

[Thinning87]

what about the new fgf9 factor? and what about the fact that they regrew a hair follicle in a human test?

[KO1]

You don't need to reiterate, we ar aware of that. PGD2 is downstream of the androgen pathway, and is not going to dramatically help address the situation if you are already taking anti-androgens. So even if CRTH2 inhibitors are in clinical trials (and they are not) it is not a game changer, and merely a good option for those who cannot take finasteride.

The point I was trying to get you to grasp was that PGD2 is not so much "the main problem", but is an inhibitor of EDIHN, and it has to be part of the wounding protocol. A simple PGD2 inhibiting topical is no big deal. The key is still to trigger a Stem cell to progenitor cell transition, and we don't know how to do that in vivo.

We've been following Follica for five years now, people have been experimenting with the wounding+Wnt+immunosuppression+EGFR inhibition+estrogen, and the information Follica has released publicly this far in their patents show that current methods are not sufficient for cosmetic hair growth.

[HairlossAt15]

More on pdg2:
"Furthermore,we find that atransgenic
mouse, K14-Ptgs2, which targets prostaglandin-endoperoxide synthase 2 expression to the skin, demonstrates
elevated levels of PGD2in the skin and develops alopecia, follicular miniaturization, and sebaceous gland hyper-
plasia, which are all hallmarks of human AGA"

Let me reiterate:
They proved scientifically that excess pdg2 alone cause alopecia. They then did further functional studies that related to human hairs an so on. So pdg2 is the main problem and Cotsarelis was qouted saying this. However removing it is no guarantee that the stem cells will reactivate or function normally again.

Removal of pdg2 will stop the bleeding, reactivation of stem cells will heal the wound per-say. I am confident Cotsarelis has a fair idea on how he is gonna reactivate the stem cells.

[KO1]

I suspect PGD2 is not central to their work. Topical applications of PGD2 should only slow down or arrest hair loss similar to fin, as it is downstream of the AR.

How it ties into the WIHN process is that PGD2 inhibits WIHN (Garza 2012). So it may be that the topical formulation may include a PGD2i, but it's not "the solution" so to speak, but another important point.

[Thinning87]

All this would be F-U-C-K-I-N-G AMAZING.

Only thing is: I doubt they will update us that soon given their past history on updates

[HairlossAt15]

Follica have been quoted saying that they "are doing a lot of work on topical formulations" Cotsarelis has always said that his treatments for AGA would be topical. In a perfect world one of the topicals would be gpr44/pdg2 related but there is no evidence atm.

I am expecting an update about pdg2 from Cotsarelis within a few months.

Worst Case scenario: No pdg2/gpr44 trials have started yet. The good thing is that GPR44 blockers are already been tested and are in phase 2b trials atm. If Cotsarelis could use (and that seems to be his plan) one of these it would speed up the trial as it is already FDA approved. It would take max five years to complete his trials.

Best Case Scenario: they have already begun testing and it could be here ~2/3 years.

From the research I have done and shared on this thread I think that his product will be a near cure/cure.

[clandestine]

We don't know yet. Early results of Histogen and Replicel show a 5-30% regrowth range. The fact that you are still just thinning, like me, is good because regrowth is easiest where there has been some follicle miniaturization but there is still cellular activity. I promise you though stay on Fin if you think you can, I was on it at 24 and completely halted and reinforced the hair within 3 months, then quit it after 5 months because felt a decrease of libido, and then got back on it now every other day because I am not so sure it was fin. Taking it EOD seems to be working ok for now but it's too early to tell.

Keep in mind if anything comes through it won't be that far away in time, so we don't have to keep on fin for that long, so I think it's definitely worth it to halt the process now and even bear some sides if they are not too heavy, and then get off of it or decrease the dosage in the future.

Going back to your question, we have no clue how much regrowth we can get when the final products are released, as the later phases of product development for Replicel and Histogen are aimed at increasing effectiveness (more frequent injections, or higher doses, or both, we'll see).

Then there's Follica, which at this point it sounds like they may be on their way to figure out a definitive cure. I don't need to tell you about them since this thread explains it at lenght, although I do want to add to what "HairLossat15" said:

Follica seems to have done some secret testing on humans and as of 6/3/13 we know that they have successfully grown a hair follicle in humans. We don't know much more than that, so we don't really know if that means that they have tested a systematic way to do achieve cosmetically relevant results yet. In fact, there has been some confusion over the last week on whether what they have tested in humans is the new "FGF9 stuff" or the earlier stuff, but the quote "Hairlossat15" provided is definitely old, from a couple years back.

But the main point is, it sounds like Follica would have a definitive cure in mind and not just a "SuperRogaine" type of product.

DBHL; Thinning's answer on the previous page cleared some things up for me.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

Bro, I thought they had already done studies on humans?

I agree, Clandestine. How could they have grown new hair on a human being (as they stated they have done) if they have not tested on humans yet? I thought they were already deep into Phase II of their trials, as stated by Dr. Cotsarelis, I believe.

[534623]

THIS IS WEIRD IM,
NOW YOU WANT ME TO EXPLAIN YOU ALL THE FACTORS WHICH CONFIRM THE HAIR INDUCTIVE OR TRICHOGENIC ACTIVITY OF DP CELLS..

The only thing what's "weird" here are your answers.

This ...

Do you know what "trichogenic" actually means?

I bet my ass that you're completely unable to define it - NOW! (and not tomorrow)

...is as simple question, and I get only "weird" answers to this simple question.

Oh, and where exactly is the difference between "INDUCTIVE" and "TRICHOGENIC" activity? lol

Man, is here nobody of the average ass-licking Nigam fans, who can help DOCTOR Nigam out? Where is "Boldy" - the DP specialist...

[drnigams]

THIS IS WEIRD IM,
NOW YOU WANT ME TO EXPLAIN YOU ALL THE FACTORS WHICH CONFIRM THE HAIR INDUCTIVE OR TRICHOGENIC ACTIVITY OF DP CELLS..


QUOTE=534623;128283]Exactly - and you have still NO CLUE what "trichogenic" actually means![/QUOTE]

[Phatalis]

^If you have most of your hair and are taking fin, you may NEVER need these treatments. Fin is very effective early in the process, and if you see recession, you can get FUE done.

I wish I could take fin. I mean.. if I knew it wouldn't destroy my body. If I took fin I'd be fine. I'd get a frontal HT like I am in august and I think I'd be good to go for a long long time.

But I don't trust fin.

[534623]

REAGARDS TRCHOGENIC DERMAL PAPILLA CELLS....WE CONFIRM IN OUR LAB WITH Versican positive and alkaline positive cultured dermal papilla cells///whats you problem im..is something wrong with you..!
Have mentioned the same 100 times..

Exactly - and you have still NO CLUE what "trichogenic" actually means!