Hellouser's RU Log (with Minox, CB Nizoral and Saw Palmetto)

[thatkidd]

AFAIK, the follicles are always present but dormant. You could assume that dorman follicles could be turned into vellus or terminal, who knows.

Time will tell though, perhaps results depend on consistency? PrettyFly83 was able to grow hair follicles on slick bald areas... maybe the creation of follicles does exist but only for as long as your dermarolling?

Well I can roll some needles on my head once a week if it even helps 1%! ha

So bottom line at this point is we roll once a week, use a PGD2 inhibitor to block PGD2, and use PGE2 to increase FGF9...seems pretty solid to me if that is truly what the Follica study shows works. I see the PGE2 on Kane's website, not sure what the PGD2 inhibitor is though. And what type of vehicle would we use for these/how often?

I'm on RU 10mg right now, but might have to get off from some sides. Don't know if I want to try CB or PGD2+PGE2, both will occur with rolling.

I'm already taking monthly pictures as I just started RU a month ago.

[hellouser]

So you're saying it is good for diffuse areas because the follicles are still present, but isn't good for slick bald areas because we can't induce new hair follicle growth after the wounding? Upon first read I thought you were completely contradicting yourself, but I think you're saying it helps a lot but isn't the cure-all.

AFAIK, the follicles are always present but dormant. You could assume that dorman follicles could be turned into vellus or terminal, who knows.

Time will tell though, perhaps results depend on consistency? PrettyFly83 was able to grow hair follicles on slick bald areas... maybe the creation of follicles does exist but only for as long as your dermarolling?

[thatkidd]

Dermarolling is incredibly effective, you're utilising your bodies own WNT pathway to promote healing in diffused areas, it's bound to have an impact in terms of reducing/repairing the damage done to surrounding follicles due to DHT. The only thing is, humans lack FGF9 to induce new hair follicle growth after an area is wounded, we simply lost the ability during our course of evolution.

So you're saying it is good for diffuse areas because the follicles are still present, but isn't good for slick bald areas because we can't induce new hair follicle growth after the wounding? Upon first read I thought you were completely contradicting yourself, but I think you're saying it helps a lot but isn't the cure-all.

[UK_]

Dermarolling is incredibly effective, you're utilising your bodies own WNT pathway to promote healing in diffused areas, it's bound to have an impact in terms of reducing/repairing the damage done to surrounding follicles due to DHT. The only thing is, humans lack FGF9 to induce new hair follicle growth after an area is wounded, we simply lost the ability during our course of evolution.

I still maintain the same hope in Histogen that I had 3 years ago. I know they can do it, but seriously, **** all you people who didnt want to help with raising funds for Histogen, none of you deserve to have access to the next best treatment.

We should have a fund for every major company working on a treatment for hair loss, most of the money is spent on equipment and enrolling trial patients so dont give me that garbage about how it would be used to pay salaries, in 2009 Gail was running Histogen off her credit cards b/c of the lawsuit from Skinmedica. Sorry for going off topic.

[hellouser]

I dont see this thread anywhere...link?

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13420

Read from start to finish, there is a LOT of great info on dermarolling, including a couple articles i posted from Dr. Cotsarelis that supports new hair follicle growth from wounding + minoxidil as well as another article suggesting that wounding induces WNT proteins, the same stuff Histogen is using in their treatment.

[thatkidd]

I dont see this thread anywhere...link?

[hellouser]

Yeah man, I got some gyno. I tried Avodart in the past and got gyno too. Propecia never gave me any gyno or libido sides.

So now I have some pretty serious gyno...which really sucks.

What dermaroller do you use? I do want to buy one. I read through the community trial but didn't see any instructions really. How do you do it?

Thanks for all of your help man. I'm dropping RU down to 10mg today to help the sides dissipate.

I use a gold plated titanium dermaroller i bought off amazon. its got 192 needles and theyre 1.5mm long. i posted a couple videos on how to use it, check out the video in the thread from 'hairlossfromsteroids'

[thatkidd]

Nobody knows what the proper vehicle for CB is. Cosmos states it will be an anhydrous vehicle though. In the trials it stated 'ol/pg' which you could guess means oleyl/pg.

If you dont have access to oleyl, Everclear/PG should work, but if I were you, I'd dermaroll just to make sure absorption is that much better.

Make sure you don't apply CB right after dermarolling (assuming youre going the wounding route) because afaik, CB goes benign once it hits the blood stream. Apply CB the next day.

I never really felt any sides from RU, though I'm pretty sure my libido did drop.

Yeah man, I got some gyno. I tried Avodart in the past and got gyno too. Propecia never gave me any gyno or libido sides.

So now I have some pretty serious gyno...which really sucks.

What dermaroller do you use? I do want to buy one. I read through the community trial but didn't see any instructions really. How do you do it?

Thanks for all of your help man. I'm dropping RU down to 10mg today to help the sides dissipate.

[hellouser]

Hell, I'm getting some sides from 20mg of RU a day (Gyno, still taking 1mg finasteride daily though, however it NEVER gave me sides alone).

Is it time to give CB a try instead? I've never seen numbers behind RUs results...these numbers for CB look really good.

And what is the appropriate vehicle? Thanks!

Nobody knows what the proper vehicle for CB is. Cosmos states it will be an anhydrous vehicle though. In the trials it stated 'ol/pg' which you could guess means oleyl/pg.

If you dont have access to oleyl, Everclear/PG should work, but if I were you, I'd dermaroll just to make sure absorption is that much better.

Make sure you don't apply CB right after dermarolling (assuming youre going the wounding route) because afaik, CB goes benign once it hits the blood stream. Apply CB the next day.

I never really felt any sides from RU, though I'm pretty sure my libido did drop.

[thatkidd]

More or less, yes. RU has significantly fewer side effects and CB is supposed to have ZERO side effects as well as being far more effective.

Here's Cosmo's results on CB:

Hell, I'm getting some sides from 20mg of RU a day (Gyno, still taking 1mg finasteride daily though, however it NEVER gave me sides alone).

Is it time to give CB a try instead? I've never seen numbers behind RUs results...these numbers for CB look really good.

And what is the appropriate vehicle? Thanks!

[hellouser]

Sure.

http://www.cosmopharma.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/ir/presentations/25-01-2013/RDDAY_25JAN13_v5.pdf

Page 58

Awesome! Thank you!

[yan]

Do you have a source for this?

We may need to find out how to make/acquire this solution. Although its still possible for a acqueous solution with dermarolling to be effective.

Sure.

http://www.cosmopharma.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/ir/presentations/25-01-2013/RDDAY_25JAN13_v5.pdf

Page 58

[hellouser]

I read in one of the older cosmo presentations, that they used the iontopheresis device to save money and time in the small proof of concept study.
They used it twice a week. That study is now 3 years old.

I want to know what device they used for iontopheresis for the SCALP! According to this: http://www.mattioliengineering.com/v...att=18&prod=69

Using iontopheresis allows you to pass a substance much higher than 500 dalton, but says it needs to be below 10,000. If thats the case, that would mean we'd actually have a legitimate method of applying BNP-32, as its molecular weight is 3,400, much higher than the 500 mark that skin allows to pass through.

If anyone knows of a iontopheresis device usable on the scalp, PLEASE let me know!

Last year, they tested various vehicles and apparently found the right one.


Cosmo Website:

In 2012, a skin permeation test was performed on two different CB-03-01 formulations:
– CB-03-01 5% anhydrous solution
– CB-03-01 5% aqueous solution.

On the basis of skin permeation test results and of stability test results, CB-03-01 5% anhydrous solution was selected as the candidate drug product for the treatment of alopecia.

Do you have a source for this?

We may need to find out how to make/acquire this solution. Although its still possible for a acqueous solution with dermarolling to be effective.

[yan]

I read in one of the older cosmo presentations, that they used the iontopheresis device in order to save money and time in the small proof of concept study.
They used it twice a week. That study is now 3 years old.

Last year, they tested various vehicles and apparently found the right one. But the thing is, they dont say which vehicle it is exactly. There is only an old presentation from 2010 I think, where they listed the various vehicles which come into question.


Cosmo Website:

In 2012, a skin permeation test was performed on two different CB-03-01 formulations:
– CB-03-01 5% anhydrous solution
– CB-03-01 5% aqueous solution.

On the basis of skin permeation test results and of stability test results, CB-03-01 5% anhydrous solution was selected as the candidate drug product for the treatment of alopecia.

[hellouser]

Are you sure those vehicles will work or will they only work with the use of a dermaroller? Desmond84 said they used an ionopheresis device to apply the cb in the study they did so I'm guessing you're just hoping for the best.

Also, I thought this was a once/twice weekly application, wouldn't 100 applications last a year(or two), that's ridiculously cheap if true.

I believe the iontopheresis application by cosmo is true, and used 1-2 times weekly.

In terms of the vehicle, nobody knows which one works best. You should dermaroll REGARDLESS, theres really no excuse for not using it with topicals given the positive results as well as the obviousness of absorption.

And yes, if 1gram were to be used with iontopheresis then yes it would last a VERY long time. But I have my doubts on its shelf life.