A Grieving Mother's Warning About Propecia

[PropeciaVictim]

I don't think being younger makes you more susceptible to developing PFS so I don't think you should feel more at risk than any other Propecia consumer.

Dr. Wasserbauer's personal anecdotes are likely to be extremely biased. She mentioned in her interview that men would call her with side effects and she would just tell them not to worry since they were likely psychological.

When I was prescribed Propecia at age 22, I developed noticeably less strong erections within a couple of days after taking the drug. I emailed my doctor and he said the side effects are so rare that it is likely in my head and disregarded my report.

He is not a hair transplant doctor, but if you were to ask him if persistent side effects were to have been reported to him it is overwhelmingly probable he would say no, despite that not being true. Needless to say, I was frustrated and never returned to him. It really doesn't make sense to visit Dr. Wasserbauer with sexual problems, especially when she really is not terribly familiar with the endocrine and reproductive systems. Even though she prescribed the drug, her likely dismissive attitude will influence her patient to make a b-line for a second opinion.

If she were to make a more rigorous effort to call each and every one of her patients that used Propecia and asked neutral questions about the sexual health before and after the use of the medication, her comments would be more credible.

[the_charger]

By the way I agree with your last post too Mens Rea, you show a lot of courage and strength with your determination to fix things. Even keeping a postivie attitude like you do will help so much.

you are definitely not the norm that I see a propeciahelp. Everyone there is so hopeless, and lots of them have already given up. Even with something like what you are going through, there are so many things you can do to make yourself healthier, and at least make things a better until someone figures out exactly how to cure it.

You look at people suffering from serious deseases like cancer, and it's over for them the second they decide to give up. Just by having a positive outlook makes a world of difference! I have a lot of respect for you for that, man!

[the_charger]

Bakez, I somewhat agree with you here, but you really should try to act a bit more mature. Don't throw out insults like that, it's really childish! We all saw how Dr. Crisler acted and now what do we all think of him? Guys like Mens Rea and Propeciavictim have been very mature about all this, so you should show them the same respect, even if you disagree.

Mens rea, I’m willing to go on faith that you guys are telling the truth here, but maybe the risk is being overstated. That doesn’t make any of this easier for you guys, and anyone on propecia still needs to seriously consider all of this before starting.

But im sure you do understand its hard for a lot of guys to believe this, when there really isnt much evidence supporting what you guys say. But that might change very soon.

Another thing I noticed is that lots of you guys seem to have started on it relatively young. Do you think maybe the age you start might have something to do with increasing the risk?

The reason I say that is because for example, Dr. Wasserbauer says shes prescribed between 5000-7000 patients propecia, but I would say most of those guys are probably over 30 if they are getting hair transplants to go along with it. Almost all the guys I saw on propeciahelp started before they were 25. I know that puberty is usually done for most guys by 16, but I’ve personally known guys who didn’t even hit it till they were 17 or 18.. And from what I remember at health class, it can take 3 or 4 years for it to finish (including the hormones changes and all that).

So yeah, some guys might not even be done puberty changes till 22 or 23, and if you took propecia before that was finished, I can easily see how badly it might mess you up. That’s just a theory though, not based on any real science! But from what I’ve seen, its mostly young guys that have these problems. I haven’t read many stories on propeciahelp of guys that started on this in their 30’s or later and had permanent problems.

But if any of that is true, I am worried because I’m only 19! But I hit puberty earlier than my friends, at 13 or 14.. Maybe that’s part of why im balding so young!

[Mens Rea]

Mens Rea, I believe you. I hope things get better for you and want to thank you for dedicating your time to sharing what you have so far.

Keep us updated in the coming time. How rare do you think these horrible side effects are?

Thanks man. I think/hope they will. I'm revamping things trying to get my body to recover.

It feels like my body's defaults have been reset though. When i try something new it usually works briefly and then things tail of back to my new "base". It's bizarre.

I will. I'm going to meet this guy tonight to discuss things: http://wallacedinsmore.com/ to see what he can do.

It really is personal torment as noone else really will understand. And the fact that PFS is so "out there" means you don't even get treated with the care you truly deserve. It's a lonely place but im not letting it stop me from doing everything in my power to heal (unlike alot of guys on PH who are defeatist).

Keep us updated in the coming time. How rare do you think these horrible side effects are?

The really bad cases like Randys? Surely 1 in 10,000 odd.
Guys somewhere in the middle? I believe about 1 in 1,000
Someone like me (no mental sides) - Maybe less, maybe 1 in 500.
Any sides? - I reckon atleast about 10% will get some traceable changes in their sexual function but most of these won't be problematic and even more will probably recover after cessation.


There is 10-15 guys on *** with similar issues to myself, all from fin. These guys were members when they started fin. Going by that maybe the incidences are higher than you might think, but maybe that's just a coincidence as less guys on here seem to report problems...

[KeepTheHair]

Mens Rea, I believe you. I hope things get better for you and want to thank you for dedicating your time to sharing what you have so far.

Keep us updated in the coming time. How rare do you think these horrible side effects are?

[Mens Rea]

nobody on the planet believes you (other than Doctors who act like 8 year olds, sell their own 'hairloss' cream and love taking your money).

Says who?

Simply put, most top doctors haven't seen this yet.

Dr Irwig has and he believes it. He is top of the food chain. Not some random HT surgeon. He is a real Scientist. He has spent HUNDREDS of hours of his own time, for FREE, on the cause. That alone speaks volumes.

Dr Shippen, Dr Jacobs, Dr Goldstein, Professor Bouloux and many others are actively working on the finasteride puzzle. All top line doctors.

I spoke to Professor Bouloux for an hour on the phone about my own case. For Free. Just because he is interested in PFS. He has 40-50 other victims.

So how about you stop getting completely owned by me and do your homework?

[Mens Rea]

Well you have to be a ****ing thick **** if you actually do have these symptoms but can't be bothered to provide any proof of them when nobody on the planet believes you (other than Doctors who act like 8 year olds, sell their own 'hairloss' cream and love taking your money).

I have posted my bloods on PH and written out my story in detail.

What more do you want? You aren't my doctor.

I have a GP, Endo and Urologist all on-side, I provide them with "proof". I'm not sure why i need to take pictures of my penis for some random internet posters. I've put the information out there for people to consider

Anyway my main issues are things difficult to prove. Sexual issues are difficult to prove. Watery semen? Prostrate Pain? Low libido? MERCK are hiding behind this grey area and have been for years. ED wasn't even recognised as a physical problme until recently. The medical world is embarassing behind the times in this area. That is where all this incredulity emanates from. Sad, really.

You're a "thick ****" if you think there are thousands of trolls scattered across the internet with stories about propecia messing up their sexual function etc. No smoke without fire.

[Bakez]

Well you have to be a ****ing thick **** if you actually do have these symptoms but can't be bothered to provide any proof of them when nobody on the planet believes you (other than Doctors who act like 8 year olds, sell their own 'hairloss' cream and love taking your money).

[Mens Rea]

so maybe infact you are just trolling every hairloss site under the sun under different usernames

who is propeciavictim exactly? is he you as well?

How mature.

I use the same username on both PropeciaHelp and Hair loss talk.com. My profile couldn't be more transparent.

I don't what your normal day entails but I certainly have more exciting things to be doing than having multiple accounts of HAIRLOSS websites. Having one is depressing enough, particularly when having to interact with clowns like you.

Unlike you, I am normal in real life. I'm willing to bet you aren't. Noone without issues is such a big douche anonymously for no reason.

Again, please revist that other thread and stop trolling.

[Bakez]

so maybe infact you are just trolling every hairloss site under the sun under different usernames

who is propeciavictim exactly? is he you as well?

[Mens Rea]

I cant understand how propecia could possibly permanently change the size of a guys penis, either erect or flacid.

When im nervous or cold of frightened or even feeling depressed, mine sure as hell shrinks.. and it can stay shrunken for a long while, even a day if im feeling in the dumps. I dont think this is hormonal, just the bodies natural response to emotional changes. but honestly I know next to nothing about hormones!

but when you get a full erection Mens Rea, isnt it regular size? or does this fluctuate? If you say its pencil thin, wouldn't it just be a result of not being able to get a full erection due to ED? Or is it sometimes full, but sometimes thin? I notice my erect penis is never the same size.. When i'm REALLY horny during sex, its way bigger than any regular one I get on my own..

I also regularly see guys saying their testicles have shrunken less than half the size.. in some cases, smaller than peas! I know these physical symptoms are disturbing, but still, i've never seen proof of these things other than what guys describe on that forum. The only physical symptom i've ever seen medically documented is gyno, which is a well known symptom:

http://www.ijdvl.com/article.asp?issn=0378-6323;year=2009;volume=75;issue=3;spage=309;epage=310;aulast=Mansouri

Im wondering where are all the articles like these that document all the guys with permanently broken penises, shrunken testicles, etc?

This sounds really gay, but I would like to see pictures also.. Lots of guys say their penises were permanently broken, bent, hard, shrunken, bleeding, etc.. It's all very scary stuff, but i've never seen a single shred of proof that any of this stuff is happening. I dont understand why that idea would be rejected. If all this stuff you guys are saying is true, it would be extremely convincing.. In fact if I saw a bunch of similarly messed up penis pictures, I would probably quit propecia on the spot!

I'm not saying you guys are lying, but you can probably understand why stuff like that is extremely hard for us all to believe. I really dont want to be a jackass saying this, but you guys are the ones coming out to tell the world all these things are happening, and that propecia is really dangerous. In order for us to actually believe you, there needs to be some hard and irrefutable evidence to back it up with. im not sure if I agree with all this stuff, but as Carl Segan said... "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

Yes, it changes even when "fully" erect. Depending on a number of things. The girth has been 50% before. Clearly my penis hasn't literally shrank 50% because it could be bigger the very next day , but clearly something is very wrong.

Basically my penis can look completely different from one day to the next - you wouldn't think it belongs to the same person.

As for evidence etc. Well, tbh I'm not that bothered what random posters on hairloss sites think. I could spend my life trying to convince guys im telling the truth, but for what? Maybe someday i'll get fed up and take pictures but right now all i care about is getting better tand putting this all behind me.


As for people saying their testicles shrink. This isn't even all tha "out there" at all. If you have a hard to believing that you aren't really in the know whatsoever. Go on steroid forums and you'll see very similar things.

[skipstah70]

No one is ignoring these posts, but you have to put everything into perspective. This kid suffered from a rare self induced syndrome and took these medications at the same time. He was already mentally screwed up and probably spent a lot of time reading propeciahelp which might have made things even worse for him. If you really believe that this can happen to you, why not just stop taking Propecia? You’re not having side effects now, so you have nothing to worry about when you stop. If I were so afraid of it I would stop taking it. It’s a simple as that. It’s your choice, no one is putting a gun to your head to take it.

Interesting, so.. from this perspective it almost sounds like you absolve the company of responsibility with regards to the product it produces. I'm sorry, but the responsibility of the hazzards of a drug are 100% the company's. It's their responsibility to test for, list, and pull of the market if neccessary because of adverse side effects.. especially if some are as serious or permanent as alleged. Even if this happens in a ridiculously small minority of those taking the drug, they are responsible.. not you!! What would you have told people who took thalidamide in the 50s?? "If you thought this drug would cause you any side effects, you should have just stop taking it??" Get real bud.

[skipstah70]

This is a very sad story indeed, but how can the media or anyone blame this kid’s death 100% on Propecia? How do we know how depressed he was before he took it? How do we know that he didn’t start taking the drug after being depressed about his hair loss and then began reading propeciahelp which can send anyone over the edge. There could have been a multitude of issues that led to this suicide. He had to have been very fragile to begin with, which does not minimize this tragic story, but probably played a big role in the kid’s death. When you’re 20 years old and depressed your mind can really run away with what you read on the internet. He might have thought that his side effects would never go away based on the stories on propeciahelp. It’s so sad because the odds are he would have recovered eventually. Does anyone know if he wrote about suicide on propeciahelp? Did the site owner contact the authorities if he did? This story breaks my heart.

Hey Zao, he mighta.. blah blah blah. He mighta.. blah blah blah. He mighta blah blah blah.

You know what else? He just might have really killed himself because of the ****ing reason stated in the story. Wake up and take a cue from all those in this forum who complain about sexual side effects from the drug, and stop trying to discredit/diminish anyone who has something critical to say about Propecia.

[PropeciaVictim]

At least propecia is something you choose to do. Not so with the poison we're forced to eat BECAUSE we have no other choice.

Not quite sure the last time somebody forced me to eat a Big Mac or drink milk. Also can't remember the last time somebody committed suicide due to side effects cause by pasteurized milk or McDonald's. I really shouldn't have bothered to respond to this.

[VictimOfDHT]

Propeciavictim, no. You gotta be kidding. If you knew anything about "processed" milk you wouldn't be saying this. I'm NOT talking about natural "raw" milk. I'm talking about the shit we buy at stores. I dont need to say much. NO need to. The proof is out there. Why do you think so many people have cancer these days ? The shit we're eating and drinking is all CHEMICALS. Meats, veggies,...
So being fat, or I should say obese like the 40% of the people in N. America is somehow less dangerous than some side effects that a few people here and there claim from taking propecia !! At least propecia is something you choose to do. Not so with the poison we're forced to eat BECAUSE we have no other choice.